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Discussion What would you want out of the next 2D Mario?

Mekanos

Mekanos

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For whatever reason a high-ranking representative of Nintendo reaches out to you and says you're the lucky lottery winner. You can submit a detailed report and they say Nintendo will take your suggestions very seriously. You can't be guaranteed all your demands will be met but it's clear they will listen to your suggestions and weigh them carefully.

What do you have to suggest?

For me, just off the top of my head, I can think of a few things:

-Art style that invokes Yoichi Kotabe's art style. It doesn't necessarily have to be 2D (though spritework akin to Wario Land: Shake It would be fantastic) but a more cartoony, saturated art style that is perhaps cel shaded invoking all the classic Mario artwork that defined the series' look for so long.

-Mahito Yokota as composer. His work on the Galaxies and 3D World is simply incredible and his absence was sorely felt in Odyssey. Give us that mix of bombastic, playful, and thoughtful music that defined those games so much.

-Drop the NSMB outline. 8 worlds of generic themes, Koopalings, I'm fine with traditional Mario enemies and Bowser being the villain, but give us an expansive map with a real sense of identity closer to Super Mario World, where the worlds feel like actual locations and unique boss battles. Level design should be more like 3D World where most of the levels feel like they're showcasing something unique and have their own personality.

-Multiple playable characters with unique abilities a la 3D World. Pretty self explanatory. Go nuts, add more as DLC even.

-Power-up/health system reworked. I think the standard Small Mario > Super Mario > Power-Up Mario is somewhat restrictive in that levels have to be designed to be beatable with Small Mario 99% of the time. I don't know exactly how you'd do it, but more levels that require clever use of power-ups to proceed would be appreciated, and power-ups being used in advanced ways to uncover secret items/exits/etc.

-Bring in mechanics from the Mario Maker games. Not necessarily the level creating, but there are a lot of cool ideas in Mario Maker that don't see use out of it, like gravity manipulation and rideable Clown Cars.

This is just a start and I can probably come up with more but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
 
I think you might have a good point on the power-up / health system rework (I kinda liked the fact that in Odyssey you lose money when you die). But still changing the art style to me is the important thing, I'm really sick of that ugly-ass "New" style.
 
I really have no idea what's next for 2D Mario. New super Mario Bros. U feels like classic 2D Mario perfected and Super Mario Maker 2 feels like creative Mario perfected.

A new art style and sound direction is a given. But I feel like the setup and premise needs a radical shakeup. Do something nuts. Scrap the power-ups, the Koopalings, the 8 worlds, the minimal story. Introduce leveling, stat-boosts, equipment, anything.
 
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The most important thing to me is moving on from the bland NSMB look and sound. A Kotabe art style and music similar to the 3D games would be a dream.

Gameplay wise I’m not too fussed, I trust the team to deliver on level design. Maybe a design that’s a bit more open ended and exploration focused for something different, or maybe take a cue from the Mario Maker 2 story levels and have levels with different goals than just get to the end.
 
The visual style should match the original trilogy artwork.

WDC94330
 
Bowser’s Fury had a cool idea with the inventory for power ups. Could have something like that to make the game require more advanced techniques from you with them.

Or just go the Galaxy route with them and have it always give you what you need and ditch the classic style.
 
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I've always said that the series should go on a break for a while until it's been so long that a new 2D Mario would feel inventive just by virtue of being a new 2D Mario, but I was thinking the other day and I realized it's already been almost nine years since the last one came out. That's firmly in "are they ever gonna make another F-Zero/Golden Sun/Advance Wars" dead series tier, and yet it still feels like NSMB fatigue somehow has not yet warn out from that year we got NSMB2 and NSMBU within months of each other.

So, uh, maybe give it ANOTHER decade, idk. They could try open 2D Mario, like SM64 in 2D. Not sure if that would even work.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing the next 2D Mario add Metroidvania elements with a large interconnected world and permanent power-ups.
 
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GamerJM said:
I've always said that the series should go on a break for a while until it's been so long that a new 2D Mario would feel inventive just by virtue of being a new 2D Mario, but I was thinking the other day and I realized it's already been almost nine years since the last one came out. That's firmly in "are they ever gonna make another F-Zero/Golden Sun/Advance Wars" dead series tier, and yet it still feels like NSMB fatigue somehow has not yet warn out from that year we got NSMB2 and NSMBU within months of each other.

So, uh, maybe give it ANOTHER decade, idk. They could try open 2D Mario, like SM64 in 2D. Not sure if that would even work.
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2D Mario Metroidvania, of course. (EDIT: Just barely beaten!)

I think between NSMBU DX and 3D World+ people who want linear course-based Mario platforming have their fill on Switch, but for the successor I would definitely like another go at it. 2D Mario will inevitably return someday, and I don't expect it to be some crazy BOTW-level reinvention or want one, but as long as it has a new style and feel to it I'm pretty on board with whatever. I'd just like to see the formula evolve; ironically 3D World feels like the "true" sequel to Super Mario World, expanding and adding to the SMB3/SMW structure in creative and dynamic ways.
 
Warioland shake it dimension like graphics. But then in mario bros 3 artwork style.
 
Buried In Time said:
I wouldn't mind seeing the next 2D Mario add Metroidvania elements with a large interconnected world and permanent power-ups.
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I have to respectfully disagree here as it would negate the playful feeling of just running and jumping "innocently" that's at the core of the 2D Mario series.
 
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What I want and what I expect from the next 2D Mario are two very different things, but I guess we're talking about the former, so here goes.

First and foremost, I want a 2D Mario where Mario has that feeling of athleticism he has in his 3D games, especially looking at 3D World + Bowser's Fury and Odyssey here. The speed, the precise movements, the wider arsenal of available abilities; I want that, but on a 2D plane. Take the best elements of Mario's movement and handling from SMB3, SMW, NSMB and the 3D World theme in Maker 2 as your baseline Mario and build from there with influence from those 3D titles. Keep the Spin Jump (both grounded and mir-air varieties), P-Speed, Wall Jumps, Ground Pound, Long Jump, etc. Then give him an Odyssey-style Roll, the Ground Pound Jump,; hell, look towards Super Mario Run and include those parkour moves, vaulting up onto blocks if you just missed them. Just make a Mario that just feels amazing to control, first and foremost. The New Super Mario Bros. games felt more 'servicable' to me; I want something better.

What about power-ups? If I had it my way, we'd be saying bye-bye to Small Mario. No need to hold back the level design to account for a smaller Mario incapable of breaking blocks. Since we're talking movement from the 3D installments, how about the health system too? Three hits by default; Super Mushrooms restore a hit if you've lost one; other power-ups add a temporary hit point. I don't particularly care what the power-up selection looks like, my big ask is that each power-up is fun to use and changes up how you manouver through levels and take out enemies in some way. Take the Fire Flower for example; it typically only does the latter, but here it'd have a movement ability too, like perhaps turning the roll into a flaming slide that can also damage enemies.

No need for lives anymore; Odyssey got it right by simply having you lose coins. Add value to coins and a different consequence for deaths at the same time by including something Mario's old spiky blue rival is more known for, a ranking system. Add up your time, your points (those need a purpose too!) and your collected coins for a rank at the end of each stage. They can be more for bragging rights than anything else, no need to lock any content behind getting all A Ranks or whatever.

It's time to move on from the 8-World structure too; do something different. Perhaps don't denote any indiviudal worlds at all! Just one big world map with a variety of levels set in different locales. Don't contain yourself to grass, desert, beach, forest, snow, mountain, cloud and volcano (with fortresses, castles and airships scattered around); get creative!

Naturally, as many have already suggested, adopt a 2D artstyle, preferably that of Yoichi Kotabe and Shigehisa Nakaue's style used commonly in promotional art. Some of said art ripped from the Super Nintendo World app for reference:

9wqSxxh.png


Get some 3D Mario regulars on the soundtrack too; 3D World's big band jazz sound just feel more 'Mario-like' to me than any other score the series has had, so yeah, get Mahito Yokota as the lead composer for this one, just for me.

Multiplayer would be nice, but if it has to be sacrificed to make all of this happen (because i'm not sure how well all of these changes would fit with it), i'm willing to let that happen.

... I think i'm done for now. If you can't tell, this is something i've thought about a lot about already, lol. I have my vision for a dream 2D Mario that certainly won't be met.
 
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Pretty much what everyone is saying:

- New graphics style similar to Yoichi Kotabe's art
- Some music remixes of classic themes but a new OST
- I agree with no lives- this isn't an arcade game made to make us plunk quarter after quarter after dying. Just let us replay they level if we fail.
- My idea for the map is that it's in 3D and are multiple small scaled open worlds. You explore the world in 3D trying to find or reach new 2D levels in the worlds instead of stars/moons/etc. Again, these would be small worlds, nothing like the scale of an Odyssey type world.
- Powerups that feel "magical" again. It seems the power ups in the NSMB games have been more practical than fantastical and I prefer the latter.
 
I have a lot of hopes for the next 2D Mario.

  • The game needs to have it's own personality. Art design, music, the whole nine yards. The New SMB games were fun for what they were, but it is time to move on. I hate using the term "playing it safe" because that can be wrapped into "lazy devs" but I do not want to see Nintendo play it safe with this game.
  • Power ups should get more creative/fun.
  • Have either separate levels designed for different playable characters, or make DLC for them with whole worlds. Basically I want Nintendo do what they did with Luigi in NSMB-U and do that again for Luigi, Peach, Toad, and/or anyone else. Make levels that take advantage of Princess Peaches floating ability. Make levels borderline impossible for Toad because why not. Maybe through Rosalina a world as well. If Nintendo wants to keep the main game centered around Mario/everyone else that is fine, but there should at least be post worlds that focus on each character's abilities.
  • Make Boo's Haunted House and Bowser's Castle tricky. I get it that Nintendo wants to make their games accessible to everyone and I have no problem with that., but late or post game levels there needs to be some big mazes within some of these levels.
My gut is that we get the next 2D Mario game as a launch window for the next system.
 
What else can be added? You all have nailed what I’d be looking for. Hopefully we get this new entry on the Switch.
 
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Mainly I want a new artstyle. Gameplay and level design is great already. Although I am not against some new innovative elements.
 
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I want a new 2D Mario to have fresh and new ideas that surprise us. I enjoyed the NSMB games but at this point I can't be as excited about games that just mimic the legacy of SMB3 and SMW as much. Take a page from 3D Mario and how they radically redefined the series going from Galaxy to 3D Land to Odyssey.

Nintendo needs a clear vision on what they want with 2D Mario. Is this merely a nostalgia grab series for lapsed gamers who grew up with Mario? Or is this a premiere Nintendo series who's quality gets taken as seriously as other mainstays like 3D Mario, Zelda, and Mario Kart? Because frankly I think Mario's status as the king of 2D platformers in today's gaming industry has been getting challenged with notable titles in the last decade like Rayman Origins, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, and a boatload of indie titles like Shovel Knight and Celeste.
 
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Mekanos said:
2D Mario Metroidvania, of course. (EDIT: Just barely beaten!)

I think between NSMBU DX and 3D World+ people who want linear course-based Mario platforming have their fill on Switch, but for the successor I would definitely like another go at it. 2D Mario will inevitably return someday, and I don't expect it to be some crazy BOTW-level reinvention or want one, but as long as it has a new style and feel to it I'm pretty on board with whatever. I'd just like to see the formula evolve; ironically 3D World feels like the "true" sequel to Super Mario World, expanding and adding to the SMB3/SMW structure in creative and dynamic ways.
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Both of those games came out years ago though. Then again, I feel like the average audience for these games is people who didn't buy the Wii U, and people who did probably got their fill of linear platformers for a while.
 
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Josh5890 said:
The game needs to have it's own personality.
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This is the long and short of it to me.

In my mind Mario games should feel connected to the era they debut in but the NSMB games have consistently felt like brand new DS/Wii era installments.

Whatever your feelings toward Odyssey or Bowser's Fury, they feel like the Switch era to me. Like how Galaxy felt like "the Revolution's" Mario before it and Sunshine is fundamentally GameCube Mario.

Hell at this point I'd even take a Mario Movie tie in 2D game if it really changed some things up and felt distinct from NSMB.

Wow this post kinda sounds like I hate NSMB games but really I don't! Just burnt out on that style I think.
 
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All I need is a new art style, at long fucking last. We can ramp it up from there, lol.
 
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I'd love to see Mario & gang take on a villain or antagonist that isn't Bowser and I would love to be able to play as Princess Peach. But I'd settle for anything that shakes things up for 2D Mario and does something different with it.
 
Return to the OG artstyle from the 90's.

I want it to look like I'm playing my Super Mario World manual art!

B089453A-EC93-47BB-B3CC-F3A47C053FBE.jpeg


That's my dream 2D Mario. Odyssey and Bowser's Fury have already covered my dream 3D Mario : )
 
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I think "better presentation" is a given - I don't dislike the NSMB art style, but after 5 games (including Super Mario Run), it's a little tired. It doesn't help that NSMBWii so quickly became "the Super Mario brand" that most general Mario products and game spinoffs borrow heavily from it - it "lacks personality" because it is now the default. But I think you can make either a 2D art or 3D style look good. Like many others already mentioned, my immediate instinct is to hope for a game that looks like the current 2D official art, but the 3D World style of Super Mario Maker 2 shows that a 2.5D look can still look great and not feel like a NSMB retread.

What I'm really curious about is how they can reinvent 2D Mario mechanically and structurally. The series already has a great base, but what is the next step beyond that? SMB3 -> World was trending towards more open world structures, featuring linear levels but multiple ways to reach the end, either via branching paths or multiple level exits. I think leaning into that with a more open world map could make for an interesting direction - not quite open world or Metroidvania, but still promoting this larger scale adventure.

As for the levels themselves, keep introducing fun ways for Mario to move and interact with the levels. NSMB did great with introducing 3D Mario moves into the mix, and I think they can keep going with that while still keeping the basic controls and mechanics easy to understand. I'm still for keeping the classic health system and using power ups as versatile bonuses that enhance Mario's abilities - I didn't love how Galaxy made very hyper-specific powers for specific segments - but make sure they have a good balance. Having the Fire Flower as the offense focused power and the various flight/jump power ups as the mobility focused power worked great and I think it's worth expanding upon. Removing extra lives and making coins a currency worked for Odyssey and would work here too, and the item inventory ala World or even Bowser's Fury could work wonders as well. I'd also be for multiple playable characters with their own stats, even if realistically I'd just play as Mario the whole time.

I also wonder if a new 2D Mario game will again focus on multiplayer. I feel like it would, but that obviously has an impact on level design that's not so beneficial to solo players.
 
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Just a new art style, honestly;

I don't have any issue with the NSMB games at all; In fact, I think the "hate" for them is overblown and hyperbolic in many aspects; They are as tighter designed as the NES/SNES games, and I'd put NSMB Wii on par with my favorite 2D game in the series (SMB3)... with that said, the visual style needs a shake up;

The mechanics, however, I think they should mostly stay the same; I'd personally give the game a more single player focus design, so when you're playing alone, the game wouldn't feel so empty with the camera so far away and the levels themselves would compasate the lack of the other players.. but otherwise, I think Mario should just find a new way to stimulate visually.

And I don't mean going crazy either with redesigns and stuff, just do another flavor, another interpretation of what we've seen so many times... maybe for the sake of it, make the game taking place in another kind of world so enemies and locals can have a little bit of variety, but even the Mushroom Kingdom itself has a limitless scope to explore with new concepts.
 
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I would basically want a new Mario Land 2. Short but every area is something brand new.

I don't like Wario Land Shake It, but that art style would actually work really well for a Mario game where it didn't for Wario. That's a good idea.
 
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in a post-mario maker world, i'd like them to flex their creative muscle - like in mario odyssey's 2D segments that, while had the retro sprites, implemented level designs totally unique and inimitable in mario maker.

yes - a fresh art direction is needed, and a unifying/unique theme would be appreciated, but i really want them to take inspiration from all those crazy 2D sections in galaxy and turn it into a mind bending genre defining 2D platformer.
 
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There's a few direction I'd like them to go.

Retro HD, akin to Sonic Mania.

Hand drawn seems to be too expensive, so I'd settle for vector based animation in the style of the 2D Mario illustrations.

High quality 3D art style, like Metroid Dread.

Obviously a different soundtrack as well.

In terms of gameplay, they need to come up with something new, I like how fresh Super Paper Mario was as a 2D Mario game.
 
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I don't personally have any specific demands. I'd just want to see them with go with the varying art styles, level design, soundtrack, and settings of the 3D Mario games for the 2D Mario games while ditching the "New" moniker to signify a new era of 2D Mario. It's been nearly 10 years since the last one so I'm sure they have a lot of new ideas that they could implement. The campaign in SMM2 showed some of it imo
 
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Really, all I want is a wow-worthy art style. Not to say that NSMB-style is bad, but it's obviously overdone and played out after a handful of similar aesthetic titles. If it's something 2D and hand-drawn, that would make me swoon. ha If the level design is just as stellar as NSMB Wii and U, then I'll be in love! Anything else is just gravy!
 
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Mekanos said:
For whatever reason a high-ranking representative of Nintendo reaches out to you and says you're the lucky lottery winner. You can submit a detailed report and they say Nintendo will take your suggestions very seriously. You can't be guaranteed all your demands will be met but it's clear they will listen to your suggestions and weigh them carefully.

What do you have to suggest?

For me, just off the top of my head, I can think of a few things:

-Art style that invokes Yoichi Kotabe's art style. It doesn't necessarily have to be 2D (though spritework akin to Wario Land: Shake It would be fantastic) but a more cartoony, saturated art style that is perhaps cel shaded invoking all the classic Mario artwork that defined the series' look for so long.

-Mahito Yokota as composer. His work on the Galaxies and 3D World is simply incredible and his absence was sorely felt in Odyssey. Give us that mix of bombastic, playful, and thoughtful music that defined those games so much.

-Drop the NSMB outline. 8 worlds of generic themes, Koopalings, I'm fine with traditional Mario enemies and Bowser being the villain, but give us an expansive map with a real sense of identity closer to Super Mario World, where the worlds feel like actual locations and unique boss battles. Level design should be more like 3D World where most of the levels feel like they're showcasing something unique and have their own personality.

-Multiple playable characters with unique abilities a la 3D World. Pretty self explanatory. Go nuts, add more as DLC even.

-Power-up/health system reworked. I think the standard Small Mario > Super Mario > Power-Up Mario is somewhat restrictive in that levels have to be designed to be beatable with Small Mario 99% of the time. I don't know exactly how you'd do it, but more levels that require clever use of power-ups to proceed would be appreciated, and power-ups being used in advanced ways to uncover secret items/exits/etc.

-Bring in mechanics from the Mario Maker games. Not necessarily the level creating, but there are a lot of cool ideas in Mario Maker that don't see use out of it, like gravity manipulation and rideable Clown Cars.

This is just a start and I can probably come up with more but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
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I've thought about this a bunch recently, and it is freaky how each of my ideas is exactly what you've described.

I'd add that they need to shake up the world progression. Don't go Grass World -> Desert -> Ice World again. Do something like Odyssey did and give us some new, wild ideas. Maybe not THAT wild, but you know what I mean. There's a reason those starry night backgrounds in NSMBU are so well liked. They're unique.
 
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I want Odyssey and Bowser's fury to have a baby. 64, sunshine and Odyssey are task games. I thought a lot of the taks in Odyssey were really cheap ngl.

edit: oops. I missed the 2d for some reason 😅
 
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Ditch than NSMB look and bring back a big map with secrets/alternate routes. Nu Super Mario World!
 
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Super Mario world 2 with a interconnected world map and secret exits in the levels

Back to the basics one more time where the goal is just to complete the levels not collecting stars to progress

A true 2d Mario not a 2.5D like the recent ones
 
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YolkFolk said:
The visual style should match the original trilogy artwork.

WDC94330
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Fuck yeah! I'd like to see something like Rayman Origins using this art style.

Apart of that, if they could take some inspiration from 3D World and Odyssey and create new 2D Mario that differs a lot from the New series, or just takes the very best things of NSMBU.
 
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You know, 9 years removed from the release of NSMBU, I'm not actually tired of the art direction anymore. That's not to say I wouldn't prefer something fresh, but I wouldn't complain if we got another.

Also, this may be weird to some of you: NSMBU released closer to NSMB's release on the DS than to... today. A new 2D Mario is long overdue.

(A random aside: I'm still bummed we got NSMBU DX instead of a New Super Mario All-Stars.)
 
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Beyond the artstyle change, I'd like playable Peach (like Peach Peach, not Toadette with a magic hat) and even BOWSER.

All of them with slightly different physics and jump properties, some with exclusive moves (like Peach could use her dress or parasol to float).

Let us have Wort as the big bad instead.
 
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I really hated the aesthetics and music and new super mario bros. Hoping they reboot the art, music and powerups. Let's have something like whistles, tanooki suits and capes again. We need variety in the locales and interesting themed worlds. I want a super mario world - 2 (ignoring yoshis island) or a super mario bros 3 - 2. We also need smb 1, 3 or world level iconic music that we still be humming 30 years from now.
 
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I think what I want most out of a brand new 2D Mario game is for it to recapture that sense of discovery you got in 3 for finding the Warp Whistle and in World for discovering the Star Road for the first time. Give me a 2D Mario game that can surprise me.
 
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I would like to see a hand-drawn (or 3D assets made to look like it) Mario using Shigehisa Nakaue's artstyle, but instead of being yet another retread of Mario 1, 3 and World, I'd like to see them go for the more overlooked entries in the series, like Mario 2 USA/Doki Doki Panic, and the Mario Land games. Make Wart the big baddie instead of Bowser, too. Use remixes of the music from those games as well. Those games were kinda weird, but I found that charming and creative. Give us weird Mario!
 
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