Pre-Release Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (2024) — Pre-release Discussion Thread

[Earthbounder]

One thing I do wonder when it comes to Vivian is how her being trans made it into the game.

We all know Nintendo is, sadly, very conservative when it comes to that stuff. Even more so in 2004. So I wonder if a writer opted to sneak that in and take their chances if anyone up top noticed.

 

[VintoWin]

One thing I do wonder when it comes to Vivian is how her being trans made it into the game.

We all know Nintendo is, sadly, very conservative when it comes to that stuff. Even more so in 2004. So I wonder if a writer opted to sneak that in and take their chances if anyone up top noticed.

There are actually a lot of famous trans people in Japan. Pretty common.

How they view it however, is a different topic.

 

[BassForever]

One thing I do wonder when it comes to Vivian is how her being trans made it into the game.

We all know Nintendo is, sadly, very conservative when it comes to that stuff. Even more so in 2004. So I wonder if a writer opted to sneak that in and take their chances if anyone up top noticed.

Did they have to sneak it in though? Nintendo has had a history of transgender characters in their games. Birdo, Vivian, the Magipsies in Mother 3, and Nora (had to google her name) from Pokemon X/Y are all examples off the top of my head. That isn't even broaching the topic of non binary and lgb characters Nintendo has had in their games over the years. I think where the conservatism has been was with NoA and their localization process. Changing Vivian, not localizing Mother 3 or Captain Rainbow, and many other examples the lgbt gamers in our community could detail far better then I can.

 

[Ricimer]

One thing I do wonder when it comes to Vivian is how her being trans made it into the game.

We all know Nintendo is, sadly, very conservative when it comes to that stuff. Even more so in 2004. So I wonder if a writer opted to sneak that in and take their chances if anyone up top noticed.

It's played as a "trap" joke in the original JP script like Birdo. It wasn't meant to be a serious plotline unfortunately

Edit: apologies! I don't condone the term, I was trying to explain the 2000s tropey humor and how it was written into the script.

 

[Tangerine_Cookie]

Staff Communication

Hey friends,

The original Japanese script of PM:TTYD was VERY explicit in how Vivian was identified. Given the cultural context of the time it was written at, this depiction had a lot of problematic elements to it, and has aged poorly; but her identity has NEVER not been clear, and many transgender gamers related to Vivian's struggles with her gender identity, to the point of her becoming a trans icon.

This is a warning to be sensitive to our trans community, and ABSOLUTELY do not throw out baseless claims that Vivian was not meant to be viewed as transgender in the original Japanese script of PM:TTYD. Any further discussion along those lines will be heavily moderated.

-Tangerine Cookie, meatbag, Lord Azrael, ngpdrew, NabiscoFelt, BassForever, IsisStormDragon

 

[Mer.Saloon]

One thing I do wonder when it comes to Vivian is how her being trans made it into the game.

We all know Nintendo is, sadly, very conservative when it comes to that stuff. Even more so in 2004. So I wonder if a writer opted to sneak that in and take their chances if anyone up top noticed.

Japan has a very different view on how to talk about the topic of transgender individuals. They would mention their existence in pop culture for all ages, even if it wasn't always sympathetic or well informed. America would rather not talk about it and hide it in popular culture unless it was for seedy adults and that was mainly for tasteless jokes ala Ace Venture.

That doesn't mean one was more informed than the other in the 2000s or the 80s just that one country was willing to acknowledge basic existence.

I won't say the why, because I'm not informed enough to say why. Just that one talked more than the other.

 

[Lucifer]

Blow that dog whistle a little harder, why don't you?

I can assure you there's no dog whistle being blown here. I'm gay myself and I have stated earlier in the thread that I'd want Vivian's trans identity to be fully shown in the game. Hell if it were up to me I'd have Nintendo be less vague about gay and trans characters in general.

 

[VintoWin]

I can assure you there's no dog whistle being blown here. I'm gay myself and I have stated earlier in the thread that I'd want Vivian's trans identity to be fully shown in the game. Hell if it were up to me I'd have Nintendo be less vague about gay and trans characters in general.

You don't need to expose/explain yourself like that to prove you are innocent.

I think there are just some misunderstandings going around. Also, multiple conversations going on at once.

 

[zumaddy]

I think we can all accept that the 2004 JP script had flaws, and that everyone has different ideas on how they could fix that.

On a diffrrent topic while I was supposed to be avoiding spoilers, I saw a clip on twitter that enemies will laugh at you if something in the stage falls on you! That's adorable.

 

[Jersh]

One thing I do wonder when it comes to Vivian is how her being trans made it into the game.

We all know Nintendo is, sadly, very conservative when it comes to that stuff. Even more so in 2004. So I wonder if a writer opted to sneak that in and take their chances if anyone up top noticed.

As others have mentioned, Japanese fiction historically never had much of a problem acknowledging the existence of trans women; the problem was in the presentation. They (along with effeminate men; often gay, but not always) were often written as comedic relief, where the fact that they were born as a man but act like a woman is the "joke" by itself.

Spoiler: TTYD Spoilers

Vivian is a weird case, where her story in Chapter 4 - making the difficult choice to leave her family that doesn't accept her identity behind for her new friends that do - is on the surface a surprisingly understanding take on the struggles of a trans woman for mainstream media out of 2004 Japan (or lots of other countries at the time, really). But on the flip side, she's still presented by the game itself as the butt of the joke; Beldam misgendering her was intended to simultaneously be mean and funny to the player, and her own official character description calling her a "boy who thinks he's a girl" is there because it was common to find that funny at the time.

A truly progressive writer trying to sneak in a trans character wouldn't have made those mistakes. They did better than others at the time, but if it was an attempt at a respectful portrayal of a trans woman, it was a poor job.

 

[ze_]

This preview has a few new details:

• Preview of the chapter two battle theme
• The title screen doesn't just update as you unlock partners, it shows your specific Yoshi colour
• They think the new dedicated Goombella help button is actually all new dialogue (hints on how to progress rather than area tattles)
• Badges and items are "a bit" more expensive than in the original

Unfortunately no clarification on how the Vivian conversation is handled in English despite having played through to chapter three (there might be a story embargo in NA?).

 

[ns156]

But there's no reference to her being a man at birth anymore... they got rid of that... so it just sounds like a cisgender woman being disowned.

Shameful, Nintendo. It wasn't going to hurt anyone to keep her trans... geeze.

I'm sure they took out all references at this point.

This is what I expected from the beginning. Nintendo doesn't like to even take a sniff at anything that could be seen as controversial and generate a bunch of press. Remember how they deleted a bunch of pro-trans stages on Smash? From that kind of stuff, I assume they'd want to wipe any definitive references... so I'm guessing the JP script has been altered itself here.

 

[ns156]

Blow that dog whistle a little harder, why don't you?

Given how you avoided answering my question after giving excuses (it is safe to say you made your statements without actually knowing at all now), and then made a post with a thinly veiled jab at me and my takes as 'stupid', and now this, I am less than impressed with your conduct in this thread. Do better.

 

[Cheetah6442]

This is what I expected from the beginning. Nintendo doesn't like to even take a sniff at anything that could be seen as controversial and generate a bunch of press. Remember how they deleted a bunch of pro-trans stages on Smash? From that kind of stuff, I assume they'd want to wipe any definitive references... so I'm guessing the JP script has been altered itself here.

We don't have the full context to that scene yet, so we can't say for sure, but I don't think this is then turning Vivian into a cis woman.

 

[Hailinel]

Given how you avoided answering my question after giving excuses (it is safe to say you made your statements without actually knowing at all now), and then made a post with a thinly veiled jab at me and my takes as 'stupid', and now this, I am less than impressed with your conduct in this thread. Do better.

You mean this post?

Not to pick on you, but this kind of highlights how quick people are to blame NOA/Treehouse like some boogeyman that either acts with complete cluelessness or some malevolent agenda when they're just...localizing games in direct partnership with the developers.

Three Houses was localized by Treehouse, but people tend to not give them credit for the work they did on it. I've even seen people shit on Treehouse's work on Three Houses to puff up 8-4's work on Three Hopes when...Three Hopes's localization is based off of what Treehouse did.

And now we have people out there ready to accuse Treehouse of ruining TTYD with wokeness or whatever stupid reason they want to think is behind goombas no longer catcalling and making probable rape comments in a Mario game.

I wasn't talking about you, specifically. It's a general comment about a general attitude that's occurred in this thread and elsewhere.

 

[WolfDW]

 

[Hailinel]

I can assure you there's no dog whistle being blown here. I'm gay myself and I have stated earlier in the thread that I'd want Vivian's trans identity to be fully shown in the game. Hell if it were up to me I'd have Nintendo be less vague about gay and trans characters in general.

Maybe this doesn't describe you, but I have seen so, so many gay people post anti-trans or trans-dismissive comments online over the years. I've seen enough cis gay/cis bi people post crap about trans people that "Trust me, I'm gay" is less allyship and more using their own status as a cover.

There are people that don't care about LGBTQ+ beyond their own letter.

 

[StretchNStripes]

Hmm, now that we've heard more of the Petal Meadows theme, parts of it are growing on me but I still think I prefer the original. I appreciate their enthusiasm to add a little new segment to it, but I don't really think they needed to. It doesn't really fit the song, in my opinion.

I wasn't a huge fan of ToK's soundtrack outside of a few of the boss tracks, so it isn't exactly surprising that I am feeling a bit hit or miss on these remixes. Rogueport, however, is a really nice remix in my opinion, even if the feeling is a little different than the original.

Excited to hear some of the boss remixes, I am hoping they give them lots of love. I heard a bit of the Hooktail one and it sounds pretty great.

 

[Cheetah6442]

For me, the remixed OST is fire. Everything from what I heard is a pop and I can't wait to hear the rest of it.

 

[MaskedRider]

Maybe this doesn't describe you, but I have seen so, so many gay people post anti-trans or trans-dismissive comments online over the years. I've seen enough cis gay/cis bi people post crap about trans people that "Trust me, I'm gay" is less allyship and more using their own status as a cover.

There are people that don't care about LGBTQ+ beyond their own letter.

Maybe you shouldn’t go off assuming the worst in the first place. Not everyone has ill intentions. All it does is cause commotion. So far in this thread you’ve just been subtly backhanding peeps and its getting old. Frankly I’m sick of it. Let the mods do their job and stop policing everyone.

 

[Dragoncaine]

One of the best looking games on Switch, holy shit

 

[Earthbounder]

 

[Truno]

God damn that scene at the base of the boggly woods tree looks so good. Twitter compression sucks, but those snippets of Creepy Steeple, Poshley Height, and the Express look great

For me, the remixed OST is fire. Everything from what I heard is a pop and I can't wait to hear the rest of it.

The real stars for me so far are the new theme at the Inn of Rogueport, Petalburg, Boggly Woods, and Rogueport Sewers. The snippets that we've heard of the dynamic themes are also so good

 

[MaskedRider]

Unfortunately I haven’t heard the original ost but footage I’ve seen from sewer area sounds so good I love the vibes it gives!

 

[Dragoncaine]

God damn that scene at the base of the boggly woods tree looks so good. Twitter compression sucks, but those snippets of Creepy Steeple, Poshley Height, and the Express look great



The real stars for me so far are the new theme at the Inn of Rogueport, Petalburg, Boggly Woods, and Rogueport Sewers. The snippets that we've heard of the dynamic themes are also so good

Where can I find the remixes for Petalburg and Sewers? Just in various gameplay vids? Got a link by chance?

 

[Lucifer]

Maybe this doesn't describe you, but I have seen so, so many gay people post anti-trans or trans-dismissive comments online over the years. I've seen enough cis gay/cis bi people post crap about trans people that "Trust me, I'm gay" is less allyship and more using their own status as a cover.

There are people that don't care about LGBTQ+ beyond their own letter.

The accusation is both serious and hurtful to me, it put me in a position where I felt I had to defend myself.
It still feels like you have my entire character judged and decided on, so I'm leaving it at this.

For the record, I don't want to invalidate the trans identity or Vivian's role as a trans character. On the contrary, I am quite invested in this subplot that is not typically seen in a Mario game

 

[Cheetah6442]

Maybe this doesn't describe you, but I have seen so, so many gay people post anti-trans or trans-dismissive comments online over the years. I've seen enough cis gay/cis bi people post crap about trans people that "Trust me, I'm gay" is less allyship and more using their own status as a cover.

There are people that don't care about LGBTQ+ beyond their own letter.

Take it from me amigo, never just assume the worst about a person based on a harmless statement/question. It hardly ends well over 95% of the time.

 

[Truno]

Where can I find the remixes for Petalburg and Sewers? Just in various gameplay vids? Got a link by chance?

Remixes still aren’t available, I’m afraid. The snippets are all from preview clips

 

[MaskedRider]

Where can I find the remixes for Petalburg and Sewers? Just in various gameplay vids? Got a link by chance?

You can hear the sewers some in the first minute or so of this gameplay.



Im so excited to listening to the entire track of this game while working.

 

[Gabev]

It has just occurred to me, if they are making small changes here and there to the script and also adding in new tutorial like characters what would the chances be that they add in the cut cameo appearances of the partners from the first game.

 

[ziggyrivers]

It has just occurred to me, if they are making small changes here and there to the script and also adding in new tutorial like characters what would the chances be that they add in the cut cameo appearances of the partners from the first game.

I’ve bwen thinking about that! Hopefully they do~

 

[Dragoncaine]

You can hear the sewers some in the first minute or so of this gameplay.



Im so excited to listening to the entire track of this game while working.

Bruh they COOKED with that Sewers theme, and even the little details like the new track for the black chest is so great. It sounds funny, but this is my most-anticipated release of the year until more games are announced from each of the Big 3.

 

[Hailinel]

The accusation is both serious and hurtful to me, it put me in a position where I felt I had to defend myself.
It still feels like you have my entire character judged and decided on, so I'm leaving it at this.

For the record, I don't want to invalidate the trans identity or Vivian's role as a trans character. On the contrary, I am quite invested in this subplot that is not typically seen in a Mario game

Your response to Ometeotl's "Vivian was never trans" post was enough that it caused 'serious and hurtful' offense to trans people I know that didn't feel like confronting you directly about it. I'm also not the first or only person that considered what you said a dogwhistle. I'm just the person that happened to mention it.

 

[Tamantayoshi]

The remix for petal meadows is unbelievably good, wow, I'm nearly crying in my seat lol.

 

[Mer.Saloon]

That petal meadows remix is mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[yntsire]

So, weirdly, the Amazon US listing for TTYD Switch has now been entirely erased, and looks just like placeholder?

Seriously, what the hell happened here?

LINK

 

[Mekanos]

 

[VintoWin]

So, weirdly, the Amazon US listing for TTYD Switch has now been entirely erased, and looks just like placeholder?

Seriously, what the hell happened here?

LINK

Someone at Amazon really does not like this game jk jk.

So weird...

 

[Mer.Saloon]

So, weirdly, the Amazon US listing for TTYD Switch has now been entirely erased, and looks just like placeholder?

Seriously, what the hell happened here?

LINK

I feel this has happened before. I think Nintendo and Amazon are having a spat.

 

[browneyes84]

As someone who's only played Paper Mario games released since "Super" on the Wii, does this play like those in terms of the gameplay/progression?

I adored Origami King and loved all the other games but traditional JRPG stuff doesn't do it for me so I'm hoping TTYD is more like the newer games than Mario RPG.

 

[Phendrift]

I’ve become more receptive to PM64 preferrers in recent years. I do think there’s an argument to be made about pacing/level design being better. But dang, replaying PM64 and the lack of stylish moves, audience, partner HP. TTYD’s battle system just feels sooo much better.

It’s very noticeable (and strange) how much… bigger PM64 feels in terms of pure area. There’s no area in TTYD even close to Dry Dry Desert in size. Chapters 3 and 6 do so much with so little space (mostly confined to a singular indoor environment) and chapters 4 and 5 utilize backtracking a lot. Normally sequels go for “bigger is better,” but TTYD is definitely less sprawling.

As someone who's only played Paper Mario games released since "Super" on the Wii, does this play like those in terms of the gameplay/progression?

I adored Origami King and loved all the other games but traditional JRPG stuff doesn't do it for me so I'm hoping TTYD is more like the newer games than Mario RPG.

This game does have RPG progression with stats, level ups, etc.

However it is more than just “Final Fantasy with Mario” that is SMRPG. You’ll recognize action commands from the later PM games in the battle system, you’ve got action-adventure elements field actions/puzzle solving like those games as well (through hammer, jump and partner abilities). It’s definitely less “traditional” than SMRPG, but it’s still in RPG in a way the new games are not.

I’m not sure what about RPGs you don’t like, but to be honest in terms of pure progression it’s hard to imagine someone not preferring TTYD to the new games - sense progression (or lack thereof, rather) is their most glaring game design flaw, imo. I think you should give it a shot!

 

[ze_]

I’ve become more receptive to PM64 preferrers in recent years. I do think there’s an argument to be made about pacing/level design being better. But dang, replaying PM64 and the lack of stylish moves, audience, partner HP. TTYD’s battle system just feels sooo much better.

It’s very noticeable (and strange) how much… bigger PM64 feels in terms of pure area. There’s no area in TTYD even close to Dry Dry Desert in size. Chapters 3 and 6 do so much with so little space (mostly confined to a singular indoor environment) and chapters 4 and 5 utilize backtracking a lot. Normally sequels go for “bigger is better,” but TTYD is definitely less sprawling.

I'm replaying it now too. It's still a wonderful, warm blanket of a game, and yes, it really is fairly well designed. The simplicity of the combat is felt compared to TTYD but I think it is offset a bit by the fact the game has fundamentally good encounter design and a great variety of boss fights. They push you to use certain badges or partners. I haven't replayed TTYD in quite some time, though.

Relative to TTYD the starkest difference is how nonexistent your partners are. They're used well from a mechanical standpoint but you could count on one hand the number of times they speak outside of their initial introductions. Bow is the only one that continuously engages with her chapter's story (but she's the best one, so hey).

Re: how sequels go big, I think TTYD does go big, but in big concepts for its chapter and trying to diversify its locations as much as possible. 64 plays the staples as the staples for the most part, and an area like Dry Dry Desert is large but designed around heavy asset reuse.

I've also been playing through Origami King's opening act again and I'm not especially enjoying that from a gameplay standpoint. My two big takeaways so far there are: (i) I adore Olivia, but (ii) lord, all of that laborious cleaning and tutorializing is a chore. I hope they ditch the emphasis on mashing buttons to patch up maps full of holes in the next game. I'm not really sure why they think that's a winning idea.

 

[Silent]

As someone who's only played Paper Mario games released since "Super" on the Wii, does this play like those in terms of the gameplay/progression?

I adored Origami King and loved all the other games but traditional JRPG stuff doesn't do it for me so I'm hoping TTYD is more like the newer games than Mario RPG.

I wasn't the biggest fan of turn-based combat when Thousand-Year Door came out, but this game changed my mind completely on that style of combat. I loved how interactive it was. Action commands and the audience are amazing concepts. I adored how much it "made sense" to me as a kid as well like how you can't jump on a Goomba with a spiky hat or how hitting an enemy on the field grants you an extra turn in battle. Simple things like that are common in games today, but I think it was my first time seeing something like that in a game at the time.

I honestly really enjoyed Super Paper Mario and Origami King. However, I still put Thousand-Year Door ahead of them. I love the quirky story set-ups in all of the games, but Thousand-Year Door's fun combat puts it over the top, and I just happen to like its quirky story set-ups slightly more.

I’ve become more receptive to PM64 preferrers in recent years. I do think there’s an argument to be made about pacing/level design being better. But dang, replaying PM64 and the lack of stylish moves, audience, partner HP. TTYD’s battle system just feels sooo much better.

It’s very noticeable (and strange) how much… bigger PM64 feels in terms of pure area. There’s no area in TTYD even close to Dry Dry Desert in size. Chapters 3 and 6 do so much with so little space (mostly confined to a singular indoor environment) and chapters 4 and 5 utilize backtracking a lot. Normally sequels go for “bigger is better,” but TTYD is definitely less sprawling.

I played Paper Mario 64 on the Virtual Console long after playing Thousand-Year Door. It was a good game, but I honestly cannot tell you much about the game at all. Like the only thing I remember about the game without looking up anything was being in a Keelhaul Key type area with Sushi? I think that was the name of the Cheep Cheep partner. Yet I remember so much about Thousand-Year Door. I'm speaking so fondly of it I feel as if it's an ex-girlfriend that I can't get over, haha! But I just have such great memories of the game and am ecstatic to rediscover it again. Wow, I remember in Chapter 3,

Spoiler

the tone when you receive the anonymous messages comes from World 6 of Super Mario Bros. 3. I remember vividly how at the time I loved it because I loved Super Mario Bros. 3 and had so much nostalgia for it. And now I'm feeling so nostalgic about Thousand-Year Door in the same way.

 

[VDenter]

Thinking back PM64 seemed to be designed around the fact that you can spin your way fast across large terrain. Mario had the spin move from the start of that game. So, the levels in the original are more sprawling. Without that spin it would have been tiresome to traverse the original title. For whatever reason that move wasn’t carried over into the sequel and you got smaller levels to compensate.

Granted Yoshi does allow you to travel faster in TTYD but this to me always seemed like a bit of an afterthought added after most of the design was already finalized, given the primary things Yoshi was used for to progress was his flutter jump and not the faster movement.

 

[Stilt Village]

Granted Yoshi does allow you to travel faster in TTYD but this to me always seemed like a bit of an afterthought added after most of the design was already finalized, given the primary things Yoshi was used for to progress was his flutter jump and not the faster movement.

It's just because Yoshi is TTYD's equivalent to Lakilester as well as Parakarry. Every Paper Mario partner has an equivalent in TTYD for their field abilities, but TTYD has one less partner and adds Flurry, whose ability is new, so to compensate Lakilester and Parakarry were rolled into one and Sushie became the paper boat ability.

 

[sadsquid]

I love TTYD, but 64 is my favourite game of all time. The charm is just off the charts, the pacing is fantastic (aside from a bit of a slow start), level design is great, the writing is such a great balance of being earnest, charming and often still funny, the music is classic (battle theme is still the best in the franchise imo), and the graphics hold up better than almost any other 64 game.

I'm playing through it at the moment as well, challenging myself to never level up my HP (so a max of 10. I'm not using the HP Plus badge either). I'm up to chapter 5 and it's been really fun. I've played through this game so so many times over the years, and while I always love it and it absolutely still holds up every time, it's nice to try something different with it.

Also, Jr Troopa has gotta be one of the best recurring mini-bosses of all time.

 

[Decoyman]

I’ve become more receptive to PM64 preferrers in recent years. I do think there’s an argument to be made about pacing/level design being better. But dang, replaying PM64 and the lack of stylish moves, audience, partner HP. TTYD’s battle system just feels sooo much better.

It’s very noticeable (and strange) how much… bigger PM64 feels in terms of pure area. There’s no area in TTYD even close to Dry Dry Desert in size. Chapters 3 and 6 do so much with so little space (mostly confined to a singular indoor environment) and chapters 4 and 5 utilize backtracking a lot. Normally sequels go for “bigger is better,” but TTYD is definitely less sprawling.

Paper Mario 64 might scale bigger but the abundance largely doesn't register as a detriment because the game funnels you forward throughout most of it. Dry Dry Desert is huge but the area is structured as a puzzle and you're not expected to meaningfully sink into it for the critical path (and it also helps that you always have a "go fast" button at your disposal). TTYD's chapters tend to have a smaller scale in terms of area but the design is very contingent on spending a lot of time in them, hence why TTYD's completion time is estimated to be about 8 hours longer despite having an identical number of chapters. Whether the maps were designed that way because of time constraints, lack of resources, or just generally phoning it in, TTYD was absolutely a game where they wanted to convey a game that felt "bigger" than its predecessor by having you spend more time in areas through more quest tasks and story events.

Bit of a hot take but I'm not the hugest fan of the audience system. You can argue PM64 was supremely stingy about Star Power but in TTYD it is monumentally easy to farm screen nukes and stat buffs that defang the long haul of not being able to refill the meter throughout the chapter through conventional means. That combined with 64's partners being more of an extension of Mario's options rather than TTYD's full suite of lopsidedly balanced tanks help contribute to 64 being more of a tactical game compared to TTYD's offense driven min-maxing.

 

[Razgriz]

Honestly one thing I do hope gets some slight rework are the puzzles in chapter 2 and maybe add some more scenes/incentives for chapter 3. TTYD is a game that only really gets going once you hit chapter 4. They've already changed some visual elements to make chapter 2 less of a snoozefest, but the absolute worst part of chapter 2 are the puni weight puzzles. Those NPCs always got stuck on the environment so you had to manually walk over to get them to rejoin you. Except they gave you such a large amount of them that it becomes a mess since inevitably, while retrieving them, the first gets stuck as well.

Chapter 3 is largely fine, but there's a lot of weird/unique things about it that are pretty obscure and could use an extra highlight. For example, if you somehow managed to downgrade your rank in the tournament once the Koopas go missing, you will actually face a completely unique team with a unique gimmick. That chapter also has a pretty big problem where the first half has a bunch of charming NPCs and then the second half is just kinda there. Some expansion there would be really nice, since it feels like the chapters WWE plot just kinda loses a lot of the pacing once you hit the back half of it. Rawk Hawk as a result really feels like he's "there" rather than the Heel you've been building up to fight once you reach the championship match.

 

[ngpdrew]

Thinking back PM64 seemed to be designed around the fact that you can spin your way fast across large terrain. Mario had the spin move from the start of that game. So, the levels in the original are more sprawling. Without that spin it would have been tiresome to traverse the original title. For whatever reason that move wasn’t carried over into the sequel and you got smaller levels to compensate.

Granted Yoshi does allow you to travel faster in TTYD but this to me always seemed like a bit of an afterthought added after most of the design was already finalized, given the primary things Yoshi was used for to progress was his flutter jump and not the faster movement.

Wait, was that the intention? I hate that spin move! No wonder I didn't like the desert area.

I almost exclusively walk through games at the default speed. Developers! Cater to meeee.

 

[Decoyman]

I remember getting stuck on Chapter 3 for about a day as a kid because I didn't know what "watering hole" was a slang term for.