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Reviews Endless Ocean review thread

I'm going to go and say, while as a whole I have indeed been disappointed by Nintendo's smaller titles on Switch, which started with Snipperclips being a borefest despite reviewing above the much-more-fun (for me) 1-2-Switch...

I'm still glad they're doing them! A AAA company putting decent resources, an advertising budget and a reasonable $50 price tag on a niche series is pretty wonderful in the modern landscape!

Games have absolutely gotten more expensive to make, this game no exception, and for some studios and series that seems to have hurt a LOT, where the same money doesn't get you as much game, and you need to make that game last.

On the other hand we see interesting new takes on series, WarioWare on Switch hasn't really had a "traditional" entry, but since when does WW need that, and the two new ones are, in my opinion, really fresh!

Endless Ocean Luminous is an AMBITIOUS game for its budget and that's not necessarily a bad thing; from the reviews I've read the best bit of it is immersing youself in the ocean looking at fish for an hour or two, and is that not Endless Ocean? Procedural generation and group dives; if you just wanna chill in some weird under water ecosystems, it wants to let you do it again and again.

Also no more Bayonetta slander! It's a multi-million seller franchise with big budgets, big names and vast scale.

Meanwhile Bayonetta Origins is absolutely a smaller title, yes, and it's an awesome one.
 
Whose saying small games on Switch are bad? Bayonetta Origins, Advance Wars, Sushi Strikers, Astral Chain, Miitopia were all great games. Another Code Recollection and Famicom Detective Club were also really good remakes, they just suffered from the lack of puzzles (which was a bigger issue for Another Code).

I want Nintendo to keep supporting these little projects, even if most people don't seem to give them the time of day,
 
NantenJex said:
Whose saying small games on Switch are bad? Bayonetta Origins, Advance Wars, Sushi Strikers, Astral Chain, Miitopia were all great games. Another Code Recollection and Famicom Detective Club were also really good remakes, they just suffered from the lack of puzzles (which was a bigger issue for Another Code).

I want Nintendo to keep supporting these little projects, even if most people don't seem to give them the time of day,
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Here here, but is Astral Chain a small game? That's an odd inclusion!
 
Ugh. I was saving a game voucher expiring early-May for TTYD but found out that you can't use a voucher to preorder a game if it expires before the release date. So I burned it on this game hoping it would turn out ok. Suffice to say, I'm not getting game vouchers again.
 
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Yikes. This would have been my first time playing the series, but I think I’m going to steer clear of this for a while. Normally middling reviews don’t impact whether I pick up a game or not, since I often already know whether I’ll enjoy a title or not, but I’m getting a bad feeling here.

If this goes on sale I’ll consider it in the future.
 
Can’t play it this weekend anyway, so I’ll see what you all think and revisit. I didn’t expect it to review well but tbh nothing about what I’ve seen has made me as excited as I should be about an ocean exploration game.
 
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ngpdrew said:
Here here, but is Astral Chain a small game? That's an odd inclusion!
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Small audience, sure, but probably a fairly big production effort.

But I'd say that's still a good point to make here: Nintendo put resources into games which aren't going to find particularly big audiences, and that includes large development teams for things like the Platinum-developed games and Xenoblade, which sell 1 to 2 million, as well as titles that don't break the million mark (Detective Club, Advance Wars, Another Code, Endless Ocean).
 
MaitreWakou said:
I'm surprised, where people expecting better reviews for it ? It never was something that today's big media critics would really vibe with.
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Or yesteryear's for that matter. I mentioned in the pre-release thread that EGM got so mad at the original Endless Ocean being a "non-game" that they refused to give it a score and ran a months-long column to diss other "non-games" before realizing no one cared how mad they were about it and they didn't really have anything to say.

Missing features that were in the first two games are definitely a huge bummer though. Can easily understand some folks who'd be happy otherwise being kind of put off by that.
 
NantenJex said:
Whose saying small games on Switch are bad? Bayonetta Origins, Advance Wars, Sushi Strikers, Astral Chain, Miitopia were all great games. Another Code Recollection and Famicom Detective Club were also really good remakes, they just suffered from the lack of puzzles (which was a bigger issue for Another Code).

I want Nintendo to keep supporting these little projects, even if most people don't seem to give them the time of day,
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To clarify these games are not puzzle oriented adventure games like Another Code, Hotel Dusk, etc. So adding puzzles to a remake of a game that did not have them would have felt tacked on. If they ever continue that series I hope they take inspiration from the Sci/Adv since MAGES makes them (not the multiple routes stuff, but the interaction).
 
Nintendo has hit some of their highest highs with the switch ever but at the same time feels to me like they are more comfortable just shoving out something that’s half baked/mediocre than they ever have been. Switch has a real growing list of high profile disappointments for me
 
MaitreWakou said:
I'm surprised, where people expecting better reviews for it ? It never was something that today's big media critics would really vibe with.
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There’s not totally vibing with something and then there’s giving it a 4. I don’t think I remember any first party Nintendo game getting something that low from a major outlet no matter how nonconventional the game was

I think even back in the Wii days of the games media constantly crying over Nintendos causal direction and they don’t make games for big boys anymore would review stuff like Wii music like “ this is the worst piece of trash Nintendo has even made and we are sorry to the millions of chumps who will go out and buy it. 5/10”
 
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Soul Skater said:
Nintendo has hit some of their highest highs with the switch ever but at the same time feels to me like they are more comfortable just shoving out something that’s half baked/mediocre than they ever have been. Switch has a real growing list of high profile disappointments for me
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Outside of the Mario Sports games and Nintendo Switch Sports, how many high-profile games are disappointing critical wise?
 
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Cheetah6442 said:
Outside of the Mario Sports games and Nintendo Switch Sports, how many high-profile games are disappointing critical wise?
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Critically not many I guess.

From a personally perspective of what I roughly expected vs what we got.. a good amount but i dont want the heat that would come with posting a list of them
 
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Soul Skater said:
There’s not totally vibing with something and then there’s giving it a 4. I don’t think I remember any first party Nintendo game getting something that low from a major outlet no matter how nonconventional the game was

I think even back in the Wii days of the games media constantly crying over Nintendos causal direction and they don’t make games for big boys anymore would review stuff like Wii music like “ this is the worst piece of trash Nintendo has even made and we are sorry to the millions of chumps who will go out and buy it. 5/10”
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As of right now, Endless Ocean is nowhere near the lowest scored first party games on Switch lol.

It sits at a 65 metacritic score which is fine.

I'm sure you can think of two first party games on Switch that were met with way worse scores, both by critics and public. Hint : they both have the name of the console in their title. And they are 10 (!!) points lower than Endless Ocean.
 
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The reviews kind of sting more because I've been having a rough time lately with some things in life, and I was looking forward to this game as a nice escape to get my mind off all that.
 
Yeah.

These games have alwasy reviewed like shit.

And the series start with capcom was even worse.

Gamers don’t liek swimming and looking at fish.

If you were considering your purchase again, you’ll still like this one if you liked the last ones.
 
switchum said:
Yikes. This would have been my first time playing the series, but I think I’m going to steer clear of this for a while. Normally middling reviews don’t impact whether I pick up a game or not, since I often already know whether I’ll enjoy a title or not, but I’m getting a bad feeling here.

If this goes on sale I’ll consider it in the future.
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This would have been my first in the franchise, too. Since I don't have as good of a sense of whether I'd enjoy this game or not based on previous games, I'm also planning to skip it for now.

What is pushing me away are the complaints about grindy progression through the single-player and the story mode maybe not being as impressive as the previous entries. Reading about the story modes of the previous games is why I was interested, but I'm not interested in doing something like scanning 2000 fish if that's not otherwise rewarding* to unlock the next step.

*If it's like Pokemon Legends: Arceus where each time you scan the same fish, you unlock more info...I could maybe get into that.

New Donker said:
The reviews kind of sting more because I've been having a rough time lately with some things in life, and I was looking forward to this game as a nice escape to get my mind off all that.
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I may be wrong, but depending on what soothes you in a game, this game could still provide that. Consider reading Eurogamer's review if you haven't.
 
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Honestly I kinda expected this to not get as good reviews just due to its genre. It's like expecting a SaGa game to review well.
 
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Honestly this is all I wanted out of this game. It sounds like it's going to be super fun for my super stressed mind lol 😆
Also, looking at the trailers, the visuals really aren't that bad.
 
I thought the story was fine and kind of lovable in parts, but that wasn't why I was pointing at the fish. Pointing at the fish is its own reward.
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ah yes this will be a very good video game
 
I don’t have a horse in this race because I never touched the Wii games, but my feeling was that this kind of game just isn’t going to review well with critics. I’ll see what the fans have to say.
 
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I am way too scared of this game to play but at the same time I have this urge to buy it anyways. I even had a dream/nightmare about diving. More of a nightmare really. Damn sharks that I know aren't monsters logically but still scare me instinctually were a big part of it.
 
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Ah, what a shame. The reviewers might be overlooking some of the fun in a title like this, but the things they are looking for and finding issue with are the exact things that would bother me big time. Chill gaming isn't exactly my thing... I chill by making spreadsheets about games
 
You know what would be an amazing mechanic? Not all fish of one species look identical. So if you scan a fish you’ve already scanned you should then have to identify that fish based on its most important characteristics. You could have a multiple choice kinda thing.
 
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Shame about these scores. I didn’t expect it to review well in the first place but it’s coming in a good 10 points below what I thought it’d get. Still nabbing it most likely once I’m done with some stuff.
 
Niche games are the test case for ditching scores. Just tanks a games perception. Definitely why reading or watching the content of reviews is important. Also agree with the tweet above. Longer or slow burn games can’t be given proper time with the media cycle the way it is. Not sure if the game will be good or enjoyable long term, but I do like learning about fish.
 
A habit some people seem to have when a game reviews less then they apparantly expected is to immediately take an offensive stance towards the reviewer, while they themselves haven't played it whereas the reviewer has played it and gave its constructed opinion, why is that? (reading some comments on Nintendo Life)

"There's very little drama in Endless Ocean Luminous" - GOTY
 
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Reading Eurogamer's take on it definitely articulates what aspects of EOL appeal to me; I didn't really need the online multiplayer or story to be particularly useful or interesting if the actual diving vibes were peaceful and non-demanding. Experiencing a lot of health issues right now and that makes some more traditional games very demanding, while something minimal like this might work better as a means of immersing myself.

Unfortunately money is very tight for me right now and, being a foolish RPG hoarding glutton, I've paid for Paper Mario later this month. Hoping a UK retailer decides to go quick on discounts, because then I might be able to get it.
 
comparing endless ocean to goddamn Subnautica of all things is....something

Some people wanna explore the ocean without survival mechanics or giant Reaper Leviathans trying to murder you
 
Jahranimo said:
Based on the review from The Verge I don't believe they've had access to the online features.

Though up to 30 people casually swimming around and discovering things at their leisure does sound cool to me 🤷🏾‍♂️
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so we're hearing of reviews of a primarily online game by people who haven't gotten to play the online

that's like looking at reviews of splatoon for the single player campaign. i wouldn't rate that well either, they're like two different games.
 
Revolsin said:
so we're hearing of reviews of a primarily online game by people who haven't gotten to play the online

that's like looking at reviews of splatoon for the single player campaign. i wouldn't rate that well either, they're like two different games.
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That is a failure on Nintendo's part though. If the online component is a big deal, not letting reviewers try it at some event or having a "no reviews until launch after the server is up" is a mistake.
 
I'm really curious how the game is perceived by fans of the series. Originally I wanted to go in day one, but after reading some of the reviews I'm a little concerned. Seems like there are a lot of features from the previous games either missing or worse. No handcrafted levels, no interaction with (or between) marine life, no hub world or NPCs, no side quests, no meaningful story mode, no aquarium. It all feels a bit shallow and soulless. I'm disappointed and I don't even know the previous games, but I feel like this is the Mario Strikers: Battle League Football of the Endless Ocean franchise. People familiar with the other games, please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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Here’s a great review from someone who did get to play online and seems to have a better understand of the game after 20 hours of playing it and loving it!
www.techradar.com

Endless Ocean Luminous review - splendid Switch spelunking

Diver’s dream
www.techradar.com www.techradar.com

BassForever said:
That is a failure on Nintendo's part though. If the online component is a big deal, not letting reviewers try it at some event or having a "no reviews until launch after the server is up" is a mistake.
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Nintendo did let some reviewers play a pre-launch online session together, however the problem is that an event like that is controlled and limited to probably just a couple hours at most, but the online mode is basically the main mode of the game and is designed to be where most players will likely be spending most of their time, so reviewers still end up not spending nearly as much time with the online mode as they really should in order to get a proper understanding and feel for the true game experience.
 
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Lugia667 said:
comparing endless ocean to goddamn Subnautica of all things is....something

Some people wanna explore the ocean without survival mechanics or giant Reaper Leviathans trying to murder you
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People do have a point in that subnautica is a very relaxing and satisfying game. Almost all survival games, and provides close to the same feeling that this Endless Ocean is trying to do.

It seems that the biggest issue that reviewers have with the game is the lack of game essence, or push or pull. If you listen to Sakurai's thoughts on the matter, you can really understand.

I'm not saying that survival mechanics are inherently the answer here, but the game doesn't seem to provide any reward for playing, and no stakes. You just need to see what other "cozy" games do and you can see how much Endless Ocean seems to fail.

Pokémon Snap:
This is definitely the biggest point of reference, as it has the exact same point of the game. Taking pictures. Pokémon Snap has a limited amount of film, and you have limited time to put out shots. The better of a shot you have, the more points you get and you can get upgrades and new areas. That is a push and pull

Animal Crossing:
Every day replinishes the most valuable resources, allowing for people to plan 1-3 days ahead for the maximum amount of bells, new furniture. Each season also has different bugs, furniture sets, and events, putting a soft time limit of how long to complete various tasks.

Power Wash Simulator:
This is a game all about efficiency. There's no failure state, however, everything takes time. It's more satisfying to do a job quicker, so you can also buy new soaps and upgrades to make the job easier and quicker. That's inherently satisfying as a gameplay loop and has its own push and pull.
 
Quoted by: Tye
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Lozjam said:
People do have a point in that subnautica is a very relaxing and satisfying game. Almost all survival games, and provides close to the same feeling that this Endless Ocean is trying to do.

It seems that the biggest issue that reviewers have with the game is the lack of game essence, or push or pull. If you listen to Sakurai's thoughts on the matter, you can really understand.

I'm not saying that survival mechanics are inherently the answer here, but the game doesn't seem to provide any reward for playing, and no stakes. You just need to see what other "cozy" games do and you can see how much Endless Ocean seems to fail.

Pokémon Snap:
This is definitely the biggest point of reference, as it has the exact same point of the game. Taking pictures. Pokémon Snap has a limited amount of film, and you have limited time to put out shots. The better of a shot you have, the more points you get and you can get upgrades and new areas. That is a push and pull

Animal Crossing:
Every day replinishes the most valuable resources, allowing for people to plan 1-3 days ahead for the maximum amount of bells, new furniture. Each season also has different bugs, furniture sets, and events, putting a soft time limit of how long to complete various tasks.

Power Wash Simulator:
This is a game all about efficiency. There's no failure state, however, everything takes time. It's more satisfying to do a job quicker, so you can also buy new soaps and upgrades to make the job easier and quicker. That's inherently satisfying as a gameplay loop and has its own push and pull.
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Not every game needs to have that same kind of push and pull, though—a fact that Sakurai also made sure to express. Take Minecraft’s creative mode, for example—no objectives, no danger, no push and pull of any sort, yet tons of people absolutely love it, whether they’re building whatever they want, or just exploring an essentially endless world. Endless Ocean Luminous seems to capture a similar feel, but also has the benefit of being a bit more structured on top of that—having objectives for you to seek out and complete, hundreds of marine life to catalog, things for you to unlock, starting players out on different areas of the map when playing online together so meeting up with each other becomes part of the experience rather than just something that happens by default, etc.

I also feel like a lot of people aren’t really understanding the flow of the game based on the common “grindy” complaints—you’re clearly not supposed to be rushing through the story mode, for example. There’s a reason why Story is presented last on the main menu after Online Dive and Solo Dive, after all; it’s not the main course in this game, it’s a bonus that you can look forward to progressing through as a reward for reaching certain milestones in online/solo dives. And if you’re playing online—which you probably should be doing as it’s clearly the way the devs intend most players to play, especially with Nintendo pushing a free NSO trial with the game—it becomes much easier to reach those milestones because you get the combined effort of up to 30 players helping each other.

Ultimately it’s certainly not going to be a game for everyone, and many will probably find it boring in a similar way to how many people find Minecraft’s creative mode boring, but this game was never trying to appeal to those kind of people in the first place. The review I posted above is a good example of how the game appeals to someone who is into this kind of game experience (and has spent plenty of time with it), though.
 
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Yavga said:
A habit some people seem to have when a game reviews less then they apparantly expected is to immediately take an offensive stance towards the reviewer, while they themselves haven't played it whereas the reviewer has played it and gave its constructed opinion, why is that? (reading some comments on Nintendo Life)

"There's very little drama in Endless Ocean Luminous" - GOTY
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“Um actually the reviewer that played the game has no idea what this game is about and doesn’t GET it like I do. I am smarter and know better despite not playing the game for myself at all and everyone that expresses negative feelings about the game doesn’t want to try new things/doesn’t get the appeal/only plays Dark Souls (???) and my opinion is the only one that matters.”
-multiple people in this thread

ngl I expect this kind of behavior in Twitter replies and YouTube comment sections, not here. Kinda disappointing, Fami.

[Edit] Haven’t read NintendoLife replies in a while and yeah, those are pretty bad. Reviewers aren’t obligated to give a game a 9/10 because “someone else might like it.” If they find the game boring, they find the game boring. You clicked on their review to hear their thoughts, why are you getting mad when they share them? “They didn’t give the game I’m excited for a high score, the review is worthless.” Huh????

“They should’ve got someone who loved the other two games to review this game!” Why even watch reviews if you don’t want to hear dissenting opinions? Why are only mega fans of niche series allowed to review niche series? I don’t get it. This isn’t exclusive to Endless Ocean as the same thing happened to Armored Core last year, and it baffled me then too.
 
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DittoM said:
“Um actually the reviewer that played the game has no idea what this game is about and doesn’t GET it like I do. I am smarter and know better despite not playing the game for myself at all and everyone that expresses negative feelings about the game doesn’t want to try new things/doesn’t get the appeal/only plays Dark Souls (???) and my opinion is the only one that matters.”
-multiple people in this thread

ngl I expect this kind of behavior in Twitter replies and YouTube comment sections, not here. Kinda disappointing, Fami.
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hmmm, I think most people in here have actually been very reasonable in acknowledging that this is a niche game that they are unsurprised to see a middling response to from professional game review outlets and that the conditions required to put out a review on a tight embargo timeline aren’t really conducive to fully enjoying a game like this—and from there i think it’s also totally reasonable to independently determine your interest level based on other factors (prior history with the series, interest based on the trailers/vibes/word-of-mouth about the previous games, etc), which is all I’ve really seen people in here doing.

I certainly haven’t seen anyone take an “offensive stance” towards reviewers like the person you’re responding to said, or show any aggression toward any outlet in particular, but maybe i just missed those posts!!
 
slide's said:
hmmm, I think most people in here have actually been very reasonable in acknowledging that this is a niche game that they are unsurprised to see a middling response to from professional game review outlets and that the conditions required to put out a review on a tight embargo timeline aren’t really conducive to fully enjoying a game like this—and from there i think it’s also totally reasonable to independently determine your interest level based on other factors (prior history with the series, interest based on the trailers/vibes/word-of-mouth about the previous games, etc), which is all I’ve really seen people in here doing.

I certainly haven’t seen anyone take an “offensive stance” towards reviewers like the person you’re responding to said, or show any aggression toward any outlet in particular, but maybe i just missed those posts!!
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The majority of people here have been reasonable. It’s just a few select folks here that have some baffling (imo) takes.
 
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ngpdrew said:
Here here, but is Astral Chain a small game? That's an odd inclusion!
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In the context of the discussion, Astral Chain definietly counts. It was a brand new IP and managed to exceed expectations at only 1.3 million units, which would say to me that it didn't have a massive budget. I would put Astral Chain in the same league as Sushi Striker and Endless Ocean, but higher than eshop titles like Snipperclips and the Stretchers.
 
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Exactly what I expected. The reviews that seem to better understand the game say the vibes are still there.

Picking up my copy today as we happen to be in Japan during the release.
 
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