News Square Enix shifting to “aggressively pursue” multiplatform strategy

[Lugia667]

Paper Mario used to be the definition of niche.

To put this in perspective: Paper Mario and the Thousand Year door released on a cube with very little JRPGs. It sold alright. About 2 million units. That was very low in the console generation absolutely dominated by JRPGs. Randomly throw a dart at any high profile PS2 game, and I guarantee that that PS2 game would sell leagues better.

Kirby games are historically not great sellers too. Besides the original, the best selling game pre switch was Squeak Squad with 2.27 million units. They always reliably sold of course, which is why they were still made, but Kirby was hardly a sales juggernaught, HAL could just make a lot of games pretty cheaply

On the PS2, Final Fantasy X sold a massive 8 million and it was a huge series in the industry. One of the best selling of the time. Final Fantasy 7 also did 10 million and it took Nintendo's marketshare.

But now look at how everything has flipped.
Kirby is now sitting pretty at close to 8 million units while Final Fantasy is struggling to pass 3 million. Paper Mario, even a divisive game like Oragami King, seems to be easily outselling FF7 rebirth. These were games that had 1/4 of the sales previously, but now they have completely flipped. Nintendo properties are stronger than ever, Nintendo is hiring a whole army of developers now(and a brand new building), while Square is doing layoffs.

Now the whole situation is reversed. Nintendo used to really need Square, but now, it's square that desperately needs Nintendo.

you don't even have to compare Kirby. There is a really good chance Rebirth won't even catch Pikmin 4 of all things

 

[Machrider]

I don't know anything about Rebirth but I have seen too many people say good luck with a good running port on Switch 2. and this is after the recent specs leaks. what is so impenetrable about Rebirth

I think it would be doable but it would probably push the system very hard.

Lets just do some basic math here on PS5 Rebirth runs at 4K more or less at 30 fps (graphics mode).

4K resolution = 3840x2160 pixels per frame = 8,294,400 pixels the PS5 has to render per frame

For Switch 2, lets cut that down right off the bat to a meager 540p native for undocked (DLSS to 1080p). So 960x540 = 518,400 pixels for undocked mode, lets use 1280x720 for docked mode (DLSS that up to 1440p) which is 921,600 pixels.

So right off the bat the amount of pixels the PS5 has to push is hugely higher, 4K native is 16x times the pixels of 540p and 9x more than 720p.

So right there, the Switch 2 only has to render a fraction of the pixels per frame.

Then you can even take some graphics settings down, but this pixel disparity as is a big difference alone.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I don't know anything about Rebirth but I have seen too many people say good luck with a good running port on Switch 2. and this is after the recent specs leaks. what is so impenetrable about Rebirth

Nothing. People are just pessimistic

It's not like there will be zero work, but we live in a world where games got ported to Switch (can't say which, but you know) and that was a bigger jump that Ps5 to Drake. Folks saying it's not doable are the same folks who would probably say The Witcher 3 on Switch is a poor way to play the game, despite the fact that version sold 1M copies

 

[Lucifer]

I know Rebirth is critically acclaim.

But personally. The game isn’t very “interesting”. Like recommending it to someone and I would be positive most will drop it cause how slow it moves, plus the plot not being worth it. Plot stuff in the middle is meaningless in the long run too, but that was something in original FFVII to be fair. It feels like a game that those interested in FFVII will get into no problem. But those that aren’t interested will vary in reception.

But that’s probably doesn’t explain why folks aren’t even giving the game a chance. If I were to base it off marketing. One, I think it’s the combat. It’s not causal friendly at all. And there’s a lot of switching and whatnot that’s less appealing than FFXVI single character focus. i gifted the game to a friend who’s a major persona fan/jrpg fan in general. And he dropped the game cause he couldn’t figure out the combat. Not to mention the UI is worst in this game then Remake for some reason. Easy mode and can’t get past the Snake.

So it’s an all around an interesting situation with Rebirth.

The combat really isn't that complex, there are RPG's out there which much more complex battle systems that sell a lot.

 

[Lugia667]

...I think sub 2 million sold may be a very real possibility now

 

[Christo750]

I know Rebirth is critically acclaim.

But personally. The game isn’t very “interesting”. Like recommending it to someone and I would be positive most will drop it cause how slow it moves, plus the plot not being worth it. Plot stuff in the middle is meaningless in the long run too, but that was something in original FFVII to be fair. It feels like a game that those interested in FFVII will get into no problem. But those that aren’t interested will vary in reception.

But that’s probably doesn’t explain why folks aren’t even giving the game a chance. If I were to base it off marketing. One, I think it’s the combat. It’s not causal friendly at all. And there’s a lot of switching and whatnot that’s less appealing than FFXVI single character focus. i gifted the game to a friend who’s a major persona fan/jrpg fan in general. And he dropped the game cause he couldn’t figure out the combat. Not to mention the UI is worst in this game then Remake for some reason. Easy mode and can’t get past the Snake.

So it’s an all around an interesting situation with Rebirth.

It is funny how as time passes from finishing ReBirth, the less fondly I remember it. For me, it's the ending, the level design, the checklisty and overall sluggish nature of a lot of things, and noticeable lack of polish in a lot of simple problems tons of games before it have solved. Whatever I played after the credits were all things I replayed in FF7Remake, which is basically anything combat focused; it's the one part where the game truly excelled. It seemed to have sacrificed a ton for the sake of fanservice, tbh. Which I can respect the attempt but I can't give it points just for that.

I think the "Remake" project was really poorly explained/thought out. The game that is actually closest to a 1:1 remake of FF7 not being called "Remake" or having "Remake" anywhere in the title is really weird, and I just feel like whatever the big idea is, it's just not resonating. I almost wonder if they're rethinking making Part 3 actually open-world, and just having towns and linear setpieces connected by flying the Highwind.

I hope after Part 3 the FF brand takes a little break, give people time to miss it a bit before coming out with FF17. 16 was revealed in the middle of 14's resurgence and the mixed reception about Remake, then came out between that and ReBirth, 16 discourse was nuts before ReBirth came out, etc. The series just needs some clean air to live in.

 

[DecoReturns]

The combat really isn't that complex, there are RPG's out there which much more complex battle systems that sell a lot.

Yeah. I can name a lot more complex systems. But this one is more reactionary then a few others that come to mind. Because it’s a hybrid of real time and turn base which makes it unusually complex for folks lol.

Like. Easy mode already lowers damage and health of enemies. But it should’ve made the AI’s more active. You still need to do everything yourself and there’s so many commands. Plus I feel like some bosses are still incredibly hard on easy too.

I actually really love the combat in Remake. But liked it less in Rebirth I felt I was in menus during combats more often then this time. Plus the addition of parrying. Felt you were waiting in enemies sometimes and slowed the paced down.

Of course. This is just my 2 cents.

 

[Krvavi Abadas]

Square having issues with the “Initial momentum” of Foamstars despite the entire point of the game being that it’s a live service title that would grow in the long term is some serious garbage. but it at least proves the nonsense about the game allegedly “losing 95% of it’s playerbase” was never an issue.

considering how strict they were about sales figures on Eidos titles prior to them getting split off. I suspect an ideal world where people weren’t dismissing it as a “Splatoon Clone” despite the basic gameplay being drastically different, the microtransactions were not as aggressIve, and AI Art wasn’t forced onto it.
they still would think it did poorly.

 

[NBOctoling]

I think with the last few games, the problem with FF is two-fold:

1. Marketing focusing on the wrong thing. FFVII Rebirth's marketing put far too much emphasis on Aeirth's situation and what may or may not happen to her as well as emphasizing side characters from side games. This helped feed the (false) idea that one needed to play not only FFVII Remake, but also games like Crisis Core. The marketing should have focused on the minigames, the adventurous style, the group dynamics as a whole. That was what won people over when actually playing the game and the marketing probably hurt more than helped. FFXVI marketing was even more strange.

2. Slow release schedule. I've seen a lot of talk about how FF doesn't have an identity. While I disagree, I do think a big reason why this is emphaiszed is that games take too long to come out so each game needs to satisfy each type of FF customer while also reeling in new blood. This is rather hard, as what FF is can mean many different things. During the NES, SNES, PS1, and PS2 eras, we had 3 games for each console, which allowed SE to have different experiences while also satifying many FF fans who might have wanted someone else. Nowdays, we usually get one, maybe two games a console if we're lucky. It's also hard to correct because game development has just gotten more and more untenable.

 

[entut1]

Nothing. People are just pessimistic

It's not like there will be zero work, but we live in a world where games got ported to Switch (can't say which, but you know) and that was a bigger jump that Ps5 to Drake. Folks saying it's not doable are the same folks who would probably say The Witcher 3 on Switch is a poor way to play the game, despite the fact that version sold 1M copies

It's funny really. Rebirth isn't even a game that is like the graphical showpiece of the PS5. It looks about the same (sometimes worse to accomodate scope) than Remake Intergrade. And yet it runs 2160p30fps locked most of the time. I think Switch 2 will probably manage to get it to run 1080p30fps. It doesn't really need more.

 

[Bonejack]

Curious thought ... what are the plans for Dragon Quest when Horii is gone? Might be wrong, but as i understand it, the rights for the IP were/are co-owned between Horii's company, Akira Toriyama's company/studio, the asshole composer's company and SQEX.

Are the shares that were owned by Toriyama and the asshole composer still within the hands of their companies/studios and will the same happen for Horii's shares?
Or do those shares revert back to SQEX, and they would be the only rights holder for the IP in the case Horii passes away one day?

 

[JorgenRaft]

The game has both 30FPS and 60 FPS modes, but the thing about Rebirth is that it isn't as contained as Remake, so there's a lot more going on with the open world aspect. I don't think SE has gotten the hang of open worlds running to their best capacity down yet, but it is still a very pretty game. To get it running on something closer to PS4 power would probably be a pretty noticeable step down (especially since the textures often have issues on PS5 alone) same way W3 Switch was, but obviously there's a market out there of people who wouldn't care that much.

 

[Adulfzen]

I don't know anything about Rebirth but I have seen too many people say good luck with a good running port on Switch 2. and this is after the recent specs leaks. what is so impenetrable about Rebirth

after having played a decent amount of Rebirth I have a hard time seeing what would prevent a port for Switch 2 especially because it'll have a CPU and internal storage speeds that will be much better better than the PS4 which I imagine would be one of the main hurdles that'd prevent a last gen version of Rebirth.

Downscaling for the GPU part (so resolution, framerate) should be "easier" as well as lowering textures, maybe not keeping the 4K versions of the pre rendered cutscenes for storage reasons, etc.

Thinking about it, the biggest hurdle might be getting an actual physical version out tho maybe a route they could go is having so kind of free downloadable "4k pack" while the game itself is still playable on a 64 GB cart.

 

[IamPeacock]

after having played a decent amount of Rebirth I have a hard time seeing what would prevent a port for Switch 2 especially because it'll have a CPU and internal storage speeds that will be much better better than the PS4 which I imagine would be one of the main hurdles that'd prevent a last gen version of Rebirth.

Downscaling for the GPU part (so resolution, framerate) should be "easier" as well as lowering textures, maybe not keeping the 4K versions of the pre rendered cutscenes for storage reasons, etc.

Thinking about it, the biggest hurdle might be getting an actual physical version out tho maybe a route they could go is having so kind of free downloadable "4k pack" while the game itself is still playable on a 64 GB cart.

The game is very unoptimized. Not saying it's impossible, but it's not a good example of what Switch 2 can deliver.

 

[ziggyrivers]

I keep seeing people mention that Square Enix’s Marketing sucks. Is this a universal issues (all markets), or regional (Japan, US, EU)? Besides that, who works the company’s marketing, is it internally or is it a PR firm?

 

[IamPeacock]

It is funny how as time passes from finishing ReBirth, the less fondly I remember it. For me, it's the ending, the level design, the checklisty and overall sluggish nature of a lot of things, and noticeable lack of polish in a lot of simple problems tons of games before it have solved. Whatever I played after the credits were all things I replayed in FF7Remake, which is basically anything combat focused; it's the one part where the game truly excelled. It seemed to have sacrificed a ton for the sake of fanservice, tbh. Which I can respect the attempt but I can't give it points just for that.

I think the "Remake" project was really poorly explained/thought out. The game that is actually closest to a 1:1 remake of FF7 not being called "Remake" or having "Remake" anywhere in the title is really weird, and I just feel like whatever the big idea is, it's just not resonating. I almost wonder if they're rethinking making Part 3 actually open-world, and just having towns and linear setpieces connected by flying the Highwind.

I hope after Part 3 the FF brand takes a little break, give people time to miss it a bit before coming out with FF17. 16 was revealed in the middle of 14's resurgence and the mixed reception about Remake, then came out between that and ReBirth, 16 discourse was nuts before ReBirth came out, etc. The series just needs some clean air to live in.

I really hate Rebirth, dropped it after the second area.

For me it's another example of how a good game can be ruined by going the classic open-world route, with lots of mundane tasks. Meanwhile, the backstory is put on the background.
Worst part is that I've read that later areas (ones I didn't even get to) are even worse, especially the mini-games.

 

[theguy]

I really hate Rebirth, dropped it after the second area.

For me it's another example of how a good game can be ruined by going the classic open-world route, with lots of mundane tasks. Meanwhile, the backstory is put on the background.
Worst part is that I've read that later areas (ones I didn't even get to) are even worse, especially the mini-games.

interesting…the game was open world on the ps1, they kinda needed to have things to do in the open world, otherwise it would just be barren. also worth mentioning that the “mundane tasks” are completely optional, if you just want to experience the story just go to the main quest objective?

 

[ILikeFeet]

I keep seeing people mention that Square Enix’s Marketing sucks. Is this a universal issues (all markets), or regional (Japan, US, EU)? Besides that, who works the company’s marketing, is it internally or is it a PR firm?

This is a company that released a bunch of games within months of each other with little breathing room and little marketing. Also they released two major final fantasies within a year of each other and held a launch party for a game no one asked for that ended at the same time a demo for a game people did ask for went up.

Yea, SE's marketing is bad

 

[Branduil]

interesting…the game was open world on the ps1, they kinda needed to have things to do in the open world, otherwise it would just be barren. also worth mentioning that the “mundane tasks” are completely optional, if you just want to experience the story just go to the main quest objective?

The original FFVII (and all FFs prior to X) use a world map, not an open world. They might seem similar at first glance, with the world map being the "best" they could do with tech at the time, but they actually function extremely differently. Open worlds emphasize personal scale (characters are 1:1 within a believable environment) at the cost of macro-scale (the actual size of the world, based on the characters, is in fact far smaller than it seems, a few dozen kilometers in area at most). World maps, on the other hand, emphasize macro-scale at the cost of personal scale; all the characters, enemies, and objects are abstracted and presented at false scales within a simplified but massive environment.

World maps can basically be thought of as hub worlds, it's a simplified environment you traverse to get to more detailed locations within it.

 

[BassForever]

Square having issues with the “Initial momentum” of Foamstars despite the entire point of the game being that it’s a live service title that would grow in the long term is some serious garbage. but it at least proves the nonsense about the game allegedly “losing 95% of it’s playerbase” was never an issue.

considering how strict they were about sales figures on Eidos titles prior to them getting split off. I suspect an ideal world where people weren’t dismissing it as a “Splatoon Clone” despite the basic gameplay being drastically different, the microtransactions were not as aggressIve, and AI Art wasn’t forced onto it.
they still would think it did poorly.

There are a lot of things SE could and should have done differently over the years. Changing their expectations for how Foamstars sold wasn't one of them because even the successful GAAS titles explode out the game and keep selling like Helldivers 2 has reminded us. No, the mistake SE made with Foamstars was greenlighting it in the first place.

 

[JazzPotatoes]

2. Slow release schedule. I've seen a lot of talk about how FF doesn't have an identity. While I disagree, I do think a big reason why this is emphaiszed is that games take too long to come out so each game needs to satisfy each type of FF customer while also reeling in new blood. This is rather hard, as what FF is can mean many different things. During the NES, SNES, PS1, and PS2 eras, we had 3 games for each console, which allowed SE to have different experiences while also satifying many FF fans who might have wanted someone else. Nowdays, we usually get one, maybe two games a console if we're lucky. It's also hard to correct because game development has just gotten more and more untenable.

Disagree with this bit: if anything they've been releasing the games too closely together. There was less than a year between the release of XVI and Rebirth, they should have spaced them out further so they weren't competing with each other for mindshare. Square has been terrible in general for crowding out their own release schedule, this is another example of it. They're trying to market a fancy new 14 expansion on top of all this as well, they're not giving each game space to stand out in the mind of consumers.

Going to one major FF game per generation would probably allow their developers to breathe a bit, and give the game space to actually get word of mouth and attention. Being a standalone game hasn't hurt Mario Odyssey, and to be frank, we're not going back to the SNES model of multiple games in a series being released on the same platform. Development is just too time consuming now.

 

[theguy]

The original FFVII (and all FFs prior to X) use a world map, not an open world. They might seem similar at first glance, with the world map being the "best" they could do with tech at the time, but they actually function extremely differently. Open worlds emphasize personal scale (characters are 1:1 within a believable environment) at the cost of macro-scale (the actual size of the world, based on the characters, is in fact far smaller than it seems, a few dozen kilometers in area at most). World maps, on the other hand, emphasize macro-scale at the cost of personal scale; all the characters, enemies, and objects are abstracted and presented at false scales within a simplified but massive environment.

World maps can basically be thought of as hub worlds, it's a simplified environment you traverse to get to more detailed locations within it.

thank you for explaining the differences to me, i didn’t know that i could get something wrong like that.

i’ll retract my open world statement to world map in relation to the original ff7. however, functionally, the world map is still an open space which allows for traversal between two or more locations, regardless of scale. it was the first final fantasy game that did it in 3D. there was a sense of awe at the scale of entering the world map after leaving midgar. to me at least, it seemed obvious that they wanted to capture that same feeling again.

 

[ziggyrivers]

This is a company that released a bunch of games within months of each other with little breathing room and little marketing. Also they released two major final fantasies within a year of each other and held a launch party for a game no one asked for that ended at the same time a demo for a game people did ask for went up.

Yea, SE's marketing is bad

I know it’s bad, I would just like to know if the Marketing is in house or subcontracted. Because it’s strange that such an issue is constant

 

[Bonejack]

Hot take: Of course SQEX sucks at marketing, after relying on others to do the marketing for you, they simply forgot how to do it effectively.

This may, or may not, be a joke.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I know it’s bad, I would just like to know if the Marketing is in house or subcontracted. Because it’s strange that such an issue is constant

guess that depends on which part of marketing you're talking about. for making the ads? probably contracted out. for budgeting the ads, that's SE. and since some games got practically no ads, that's a fault on SE

 

[DecoReturns]

It is funny how as time passes from finishing ReBirth, the less fondly I remember it. For me, it's the ending, the level design, the checklisty and overall sluggish nature of a lot of things, and noticeable lack of polish in a lot of simple problems tons of games before it have solved. Whatever I played after the credits were all things I replayed in FF7Remake, which is basically anything combat focused; it's the one part where the game truly excelled. It seemed to have sacrificed a ton for the sake of fanservice, tbh. Which I can respect the attempt but I can't give it points just for that.

I think the "Remake" project was really poorly explained/thought out. The game that is actually closest to a 1:1 remake of FF7 not being called "Remake" or having "Remake" anywhere in the title is really weird, and I just feel like whatever the big idea is, it's just not resonating. I almost wonder if they're rethinking making Part 3 actually open-world, and just having towns and linear setpieces connected by flying the Highwind.

I hope after Part 3 the FF brand takes a little break, give people time to miss it a bit before coming out with FF17. 16 was revealed in the middle of 14's resurgence and the mixed reception about Remake, then came out between that and ReBirth, 16 discourse was nuts before ReBirth came out, etc. The series just needs some clean air to live in.

Yeah. I beat Rebirth and then just stop thinking about. Because of how much of a slog it was. Remake was a slog too and overstayed its welcome but at 40 hours. It’s ended up being manageable. Rebirth did the same mistakes as Remake and expanded areas that didn’t need expansion, like the Shinra Mansion.

Still the game got critical acclaim. And it’s one of the very very few titles where I was actually surprised how high it scored. Even games I disliked, I could get the high scores. The writing being one of them, the plot barley moves, Zack is there and slow the game down to a crawl, cloud is being a psycho and no cares, too much Sephiroth again and too much of the black robe folks.

and part 3 I have no clue what they’ll do. There’s not much you need to do afterwards. Which means they aren’t gonna pad it out again I hope. Huge Materia quest, the weapons, submarine and Cloud’s memories. Like I’m hoping it’s not another 80-90 hours again lol

 

[NBOctoling]

Disagree with this bit: if anything they've been releasing the games too closely together. There was less than a year between the release of XVI and Rebirth, they should have spaced them out further so they weren't competing with each other for mindshare. Square has been terrible in general for crowding out their own release schedule, this is another example of it. They're trying to market a fancy new 14 expansion on top of all this as well, they're not giving each game space to stand out in the mind of consumers.

Going to one major FF game per generation would probably allow their developers to breathe a bit, and give the game space to actually get word of mouth and attention. Being a standalone game hasn't hurt Mario Odyssey, and to be frank, we're not going back to the SNES model of multiple games in a series being released on the same platform. Development is just too time consuming now.

I mean, they can space them out and still give them room to breathe. FFVII Rebirth and FFXVI did release too close together for mainline titles sure but both could have been released on PS5 without doing too much damage to each other by simply making their releases two years apart.

 

[Tall Valley Nerd]

Yeah. I beat Rebirth and then just stop thinking about. Because of how much of a slog it was. Remake was a slog too and overstayed its welcome but at 40 hours. It’s ended up being manageable. Rebirth did the same mistakes as Remake and expanded areas that didn’t need expansion, like the Shinra Mansion.

Still the game got critical acclaim. And it’s one of the very very few titles where I was actually surprised how high it scored. Even games I disliked, I could get the high scores. The writing being one of them, the plot barley moves, Zack is there and slow the game down to a crawl, cloud is being a psycho and no cares, too much Sephiroth again and too much of the black robe folks.

and part 3 I have no clue what they’ll do. There’s not much you need to do afterwards. Which means they aren’t gonna pad it out again I hope. Huge Materia quest, the weapons, submarine and Cloud’s memories. Like I’m hoping it’s not another 80-90 hours again lol

i really doubt that had any effect on sales especially that it look that most people that played really liked it
and since when a game being too long cause it to have bad sales

 

[robertman2]

I know Rebirth is critically acclaim.

But personally. The game isn’t very “interesting”. Like recommending it to someone and I would be positive most will drop it cause how slow it moves, plus the plot not being worth it. Plot stuff in the middle is meaningless in the long run too, but that was something in original FFVII to be fair. It feels like a game that those interested in FFVII will get into no problem. But those that aren’t interested will vary in reception.

But that’s probably doesn’t explain why folks aren’t even giving the game a chance. If I were to base it off marketing. One, I think it’s the combat. It’s not causal friendly at all. And there’s a lot of switching and whatnot that’s less appealing than FFXVI single character focus. i gifted the game to a friend who’s a major persona fan/jrpg fan in general. And he dropped the game cause he couldn’t figure out the combat. Not to mention the UI is worst in this game then Remake for some reason. Easy mode and can’t get past the Snake.

So it’s an all around an interesting situation with Rebirth.

lot of words to say "I'm getting skill issued by Rebirth"

 

[DecoReturns]

lot of words to say "I'm getting skill issued by Rebirth"

i wished. The game is actually much easier than Remake. Enemies didn’t get much to counter all the benefits the players got. Synergy, parrying, better materia. Only nerfs were All, less MP and switching clouds stance.

They added much more flying enemies tho. Which was a reason to get people to use Barret more I guess since he’s by far the worst in Remake as Tifa is the strongest and Areith magic was so powerful.

 

[Angel Whispers]

interesting…the game was open world on the ps1, they kinda needed to have things to do in the open world, otherwise it would just be barren. also worth mentioning that the “mundane tasks” are completely optional, if you just want to experience the story just go to the main quest objective?

Vast world isn’t the same as open world. FF7 was NOT “open world”. It hid its linearity behind a world map, and lots of areas were still inaccessible without certain means of transport.

 

[theguy]

Vast world isn’t the same as open world. FF7 was NOT “open world”. It hid its linearity behind a world map, and lots of areas were still inaccessible without certain means of transport.

yes, i agree, in my head i just thought they’re interchangeable. i mean it’s the precursor to open word right? although naturally, limited by the tech of its time. rebirth is also the same, it’s still a linear game with vast areas to explore until towards the end, much like the original game. you can only go to certain places and do certain things when you acquire the correct mode of transport.