Shoe
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Pretty clear that GameCube and onward are getting ports / remasters / remakes, like Pikmin, Metroid Prime, and Xenoblade Chronicles, and they’re not going to make a new NSO app.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
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omniryu
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We are learning about electronics, computers science, and economics. Not too mention some breaking down, psychology.
I feel like the thought process of the development of the Wii U is such a mystery. Obviously they wanted to repeat the success of the Wii. The question I want to know is was it underpowered on purpose or were they really trying to compete graphically, and they underestimated what was needed? I get the CPU was the way it was suppose to be because backward compatibility.
omniryu
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Never say never. Switch 2 could probably run GC emulation fine. Switch can run some of it fine now.
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Emulation overhead isn't the only obstacle. The main issue with Wii NSO is that the controls are so radically different compared to what we have now, so Nintendo's not going to be able to get away with a one size fits all implementation. Not only do you have to test out different control configurations and make sure that they're usable, you also need to communicate each game's control scheme to the user in a quick and efficient manner.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
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The wiiu's development idea is in fact my understanding of the immature NS, although the wii has achieved great success however the follow up of the blue ocean program was weak, the lack of a solid user base made Nintendo enter the 8th generation wanting to take care of both the blue ocean and the core gamers, therefore the wiiu was a product that appeared under this design idea, but as I have just said, the existence of the 3ds completely distracted the development efforts of Nintendo, resulting in the inefficiency of HD development, which was a huge blow to the wiiu lineup. and the emergence of the ns perfectly practiced the wiiu's philosophy of trying to bring in both blue ocean and core gamers at the same time.
BreakAtmo
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I could potentially see rare examples of it beating even PS5 and XSX in image quality as well - specifically when those versions use something like checkerboard rendering, which uses half the pixels of 4K but still doesn't match DLSS performance mode.
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At one point I thought this was their direction, but the releases have been pretty sparse. I think it's possible that they eventually land on more of a hybrid approach where there are standalone releases that may eventually be covered under a future NSO tier.
gonanzir
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Recently found nvidia ceo's review of 4n prices
It should be noted that this comment is from 2022 and may not apply to the latest situation
“Processed generationally from 8N to 4N, that process gain was probably about 15%. But unfortunately, the cost goes up by more than 15%,” he explained.
edit:As process tech has approached physical limits, the intricacy of production has dramatically increased. Jensen explained that its chip development is accomplished in a series of steps, with approximately one step completed in fab per day. Current cycle times have ballooned to around four months from start to finish.
It should be noted that this comment is from 2022 and may not apply to the latest situation
“Processed generationally from 8N to 4N, that process gain was probably about 15%. But unfortunately, the cost goes up by more than 15%,” he explained.
edit:As process tech has approached physical limits, the intricacy of production has dramatically increased. Jensen explained that its chip development is accomplished in a series of steps, with approximately one step completed in fab per day. Current cycle times have ballooned to around four months from start to finish.
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Kise Ryota
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Could anyone remind me of what parts from Ada appear to have ended up on the T239 GPU? And how did we find about it?
Power gating stuff. But it's important to note that lovelace is very similar to Ampere outside of the RT core and Tensor core. There's not that much there to help with performance
Kise Ryota
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I thought Ada's video block was also there, with AV1 encoding?
Kevin
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I definitely think it will set the tone for the next few months. I think if the Switch 2 really is launching by March of 2025, we will at least get some sort of hint or weird wording that would definitely suggest the system is coming but if there is nothing at all then that will leave me personally skeptical that the Switch 2 will launch before the end of this fiscal year. Fingers crossed and yeah I'm still eager to see what is said. Expectations set to low of course.
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Wockio
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Pikmin 1 + 2 is definitive confirmation for me that this is their strategy going forward, alongisde their more high-effort releases like everything you mentioned plus Miitopia, Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe, 3D All-Stars, etc.
That does mean some less popular games from the GC, Wii and 3DS will get left behind, but it is what it is. If you are truly aching to play any, Dolphin is an excellent way to play them.
DS is the one I'm not really sure about, but I'm leaning more towards it being a NSO app eventually. Maybe in two years or so, once they have run out of N64/GBA games.
Tentacle-tropes
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I would say that Nintendo will mine GC/Wii for games they find relevant to remaster/make. At the same time they’ll probably eventually put GC/Wii games on NSO since I doubt they’ll remaster/make every single one from those consoles. Even games they do give that treatment to they’ll still put them on there.
Wockio
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No way. Sure, Link's Awakening but it had already been 4 years since the remake. Mario vs. Donkey Kong isn't on NSO yet for example.
HankyPanky
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the biggest potential difference over Ampere is being manufactured on a much more efficient node and that's still a ?? whether T239 inherits this...
Kise Ryota
My body's ready for SEC 8nm
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I wasn't even thinking about performance.
Somehow I remember reading about the video block from Ada being on T239 (so AV1 encoder would be a thing), but maybe I'm misremembering it. The line of thought I was having was if T239 had this block from Ada, and supposing it was fabbed using SEC 8nm, would that mean they would need to rework this block (that I assume it's fabbed using 4N, just like all the other GPU parts from Ada) to port it to SEC 8nm?
edit: I found this
So it indeed has the encoder feature backported from Ada.
Aufhebung RPG
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Custom chips have flexibility in terms of process nodes, and especially considering that TX1 was not a custom chip also chose a niche node like 20nm, I have no doubt that Nintendo could have had flexibility in terms of node choices for the drake.
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Yes because May 7 never had anything to do with Pyoro. The investor's meeting is still happening.
Granted there's still a chance nothing will be said during the meeting but the point is eyes have been on that date since before Pyoro tweeted, for good reason.
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That too, but ORIN has that as well and it’s the only other Ampere product with a later gen media engine.
As an aside, T239 has the same OFA as ORIN, which is different than that of the other ampere and due to ORIN being an automotive part it would need an advanced OFA for better tracking of subjects on the streets with the cameras.
My question is, why would Drake need to have the same OFA as Orin if A) it’s not supposed to go in a Car, and B) it won’t be using Frame generation due to its limited capabilities?
Of all the choices, keeping the OFA of an automotive part is rather odd choice and I’m curious as to what it entails.
That or it has the automotive OFA that I think probably exists in ADA more advanced? (I’m not sure), simply because it has the similar Media block as Orin and the OFA is in the media block.
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TLZ
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I actually think it's weird keeping the OFA at all, in a custom chip that has little to no use for it.That too, but ORIN has that as well and it’s the only other Ampere product with a later gen media engine.
As an aside, T239 has the same OFA as ORIN, which is different than that of the other ampere and due to ORIN being an automotive part it would need an advanced OFA for better tracking of subjects on the streets with the cameras.
My question is, why would Drake need to have the same OFA as Orin if A) it’s not supposed to go in a Car, and B) it won’t be using Frame generation due to its limited capabilities?
Of all the choices, keeping the OFA of an automotive part is rather odd choice and I’m curious as to what it entails.
That or it has the automotive OFA that I think probably exists in ADA more advanced? (I’m not sure), simply because it has the similar Media block as Orin and the OFA is in the media block.
Couldn't those transistors be put to better use?
HankyPanky
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same but I feel something is definitely going to happen in June if they say nothing.
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They probably could have just been omitted and saved die space even… but I guess a way to use it is if you want to convert any game recording to a higher framerate with no loss in quality by using the OFA to generate an image between the N frame and N+1 frame, while keeping the overall process of recording a video clip pretty small and not occupy a huge amount of space on the system.
The OFA would be part of the NV Media block on a GPU, so maybe they can’t remove it without removing these?
Here’s a post from Nemez on Twitter, she makes an estimation regarding the OFA but the place it belongs to is correct, ie it’s not in the GPU itself but rather in one of these blocks:
In the near future yes, but I can see GC NSO app between mid-final Switch 2 cycle
Charamiwa
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There's always a bigger chance of things not happening than actually happening. The Switch 2 not getting announced will happen every day of every year. It being announced will only happen once. It's one of this thread's great tragedies.
Danny
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The big thing to look for should be their forecast on R&D spending, if they forecast a huge increase in R&D spending then that means production of Switch 2 will start this fiscal year for a march 2025 release.
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SoldierDelta
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Would it be R&D spending or just production expenses? If anything, I kinda expect R&D prices to go down a smidge because the console would be close to being finalized, ready for mass production which would show production and labor costs.
Not that it matters, we'll likely find something of note in the forecast, it's just that we'll have to pay a bit of attention for year-on-year expenses.
Aufhebung RPG
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A little thought, I don't know how other countries, in China switch users generally think oled as a portable machine is already very big, the volume if bigger as a portable machine has been a little unacceptable, I think nintendo if you want to make the concept of hybrid consoles into a long term brand, they need to solve the problem in the future with the performance of improving the volume is also constantly expanding.
BreakAtmo
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Do y'all think an 8" screen is enough to fit a virtual DS in ?
It's more than enough - honestly the idea of having Joy-Con rails for vertical mode sounds awesome. I hope magnets might be able to make that feasible.
CocaFormula
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Isn't that the other way around? R&D is tipically higher when a new console is being developed, once it gets into production it should drop significantly.
Aufhebung RPG
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SHIT, I have vpn on 24/7 now and sooner or later I'm going to have to use the overage.
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no, but i set myself a deadline when Nintendo could mention Switch sucessor, if by this septembre, theres no mention of Switch sucessor, it will means Switch sucessor launch by summer/late 2025, let us all hope by the anual shareholders meeting in june, Nintendo finally knowledge Switch sucessor.
Everything including game development costs, think
RennanNT
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OG DS (and 3DS) screens are 1.81" tall. To match the physical size without the gap between screens, you need a 3.62" tall screen. For a 16:9 screen, that means a 6.44" screen.Do y'all think an 8" screen is enough to fit a virtual DS in ?
So, Wii U Gamepade and OG Switch were already very close and the OLED had already more than enough.
Tentacle-tropes
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It’s not a guarantee but we’ll see once they add more GBA games. The list isn’t too extensive currently.
Cheetah6442
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Sorry for the late reply to your comment, but my rebuttal was your what if scenario of Covid never happening, the Switch would've only sold 60-90 million units, which I very much disagree with. It most definitely wouldn't be over 140 million units, but I'm still of the belief that the Switch would reach over 110 mil units at most.The Switch in my opinion saw a huge influx when Covid happened, both hardware and software.
Also surpisingly enough the Oled model is becoming the new norm.
Also 2023 kinda gave a new life to the Switch, like how we saw that happen with Animal crossing.
Also i didn't mention the Switch wouldn't be successful, just that Nintendo would have moved on quicker with NG Switch if Covid didn't happen.
the source is from Nintendo themself: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2024/240206_4e.pdf
Shoulder
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I’m replying to both of you at the same time as my response is the same. Nintendo has referred to the Switch as a Family of systems, aka a brand. So maybe instead of thinking of the Switch as an individual system, even a group of systems, it’s really a brand of consoles made by Nintendo. Think similar towards Microsoft with Xbox, or of course Sony with PlayStation. Nintendo might be shifting their focus to make the Switch a brand of consoles that'll span generations rather than only a few short years like they’ve done since the SNES in the console space.
But as Concert mentioned, the Game Boy was really just a brand of handhelds, which over time received improvements, whether aesthetic, comfort, QOL, or even graphical improvements. Ultimately, they were all just a Game Boy. Ask most random folks out there who are not gamers, and they'll know what a Game Boy is, even if they don’t understand the differences between the first one to the last one. Branding can have a massive influence, and we’ve seen this with PlayStation globally, and Xbox primarily in the Western countries.
The Switch to me feels like a restart from Nintendo in terms of branding, and it'll continue for the foreseeable future. Now, how does that pertain towards May 7th? Nintendo could just say they expect “the Switch family of systems to continue growing into this current Fiscal year.“ While I would love for them to tease something, it may not end up occurring.
Switch 1, Switch 2, Switch OLED, etc, etc. None of that truly matters because Switch is successful enough to be a brand within itself of Nintendo. Non-gamers may not understand the difference between a Switch 1, and a Switch 2, but they'll understand what a Nintendo Switch is. Nerds will know the differences between each year of the Ford F150, but the average person will just know it’s an F150, and it'll do truck stuff, and that might be good enough for them.
oldpuck
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Power gating was mentioned in the hack. There is also a Linux driver which was in development, but deleted while in progress, from Nvidia's repositories. That has hints of power gating as well being different between Orin and Drake
The video decode block is mentioned in the Linux driver.
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I agree with the broad strokes, but "family of systems" has been used by Nintendo in the past only for, I believe, systems of the same generation. The most notable and recent example is of course the Nintendo 3DS Family of systems. They didn't include 3DS in the DS family of systems despite being an extension of the brand, I recall.
SoldierDelta
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I think the most extreme upgrade that Nintendo considers to be "The Same Family of Systems" was with the Game Boy Color being a part of the Game Boy line of systems... I think Nintendo is stupid and wrong for saying that, but it is a notable upgrade with it's own game library. I do think the Switch 2 will be considered "it's own platform", but Nintendo will likely explain it's an iterative console in the same way that the Wii U was a sequel to the Wii, or the 3ds was a sequel to DS, or that the Switch 2's lead up to launch was a sequel to Purgatory.
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While a somewhat considerable upgrade in speed, the resolution was the same and it wasn't a new, incompatible architecture.
I doubt they will use that example. They will keep pretending the Wii U never existed.
BC with incompatible architectures haven't really been possible until recently (unless you literally ncluded old hardware).
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